Ron Paul's last speech to Congress

[Vulcan]

I think he was a closet racist.

[Devils'Advocate]

The whole "free market can do no wrong" and "government can do no right" ideology is scary. The countries with stringent regulation on banking are surviving better than those with lax regulation. Countries with single-payer not-for-profit health care means the poor have equal access and the middle class don't have to declare bankruptcy when someone gets sick. Without laws being enforced on the environmental front, the cheapest and dirtiest methods are employd by industry since their primary goal is lower costs and higher profit.

I only skimmed the article as I am on the way to work and don't have time to read the whole thing as of yet, but two questions of his jumped out at me. "Why don't we have the choice of what lightbulbs we want to use?" And "Why is the government restricting what toilets we can buy?" The obvious answer is that the needs of society to conserve electricity and water outweigh the need to waste those resources. Now you may balk at how much the CFLs and low-flow toilets actually save, but the government works under the best information available to them at the time. I don't think the low-flow toilet lobby is as big as people seem to think. I think that law was honestly politicians actually trying to do the right thing.

[troutman]

I'm going to "calls 'em like I sees em" too.

Libertarianism is an anti-social pipe-dream.

We take care of our own.

[mariners_fever]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Ron Paul as Canada's PM? Yeah, no thank you.

Personally, I want to live in a society where one of the goals of that society is to care of the sick and vulnerable. Ron Paul can go find his own de-regulated dreamland utopia.

Isn't this also utopian.......?

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by mariners_fever

Isn't this also utopian.......?

So? I said he can find his own.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

That Ru Paul sure is a smooth talker.

[East Coast Flame]

I saw a great tweet during Hurricane Sandy, it was something along the lines of:

"Libertarianism sounds great until your state is under 10 feet of water"

[mariners_fever]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

So? I said he can find his own.

But the rest of us can live in your dreamland utopia?

[Tinordi]

Only the simplest of minds could find a pure-Libertarianism social order attractive. It's an appeal to absolutes, based on the idea of personal freedom which completely ignores the realities of what a system would look like.

The real world is thousands of shades of grey, something libertarians just cannot fit into their pea sized heads.

[moncton golden flames]

so many different perspectives in this thread on how to be governed, unfortunately they confirm my belief that party politics are the problem and so are their ignorant supporters. you reap what you sow, but we all have to lay in it, stop being so selfish.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I don't agree with alot of the ideas he espoused, nor do I believe he is correct in many arguments he passes off as facts in that speech.

However, I have a great deal of respect and admiration for the man for saying what he means and trying to do what he says. There are few, if any, politicians in the US (or Canada) that can make that claim.

Dennis Kucinich is the only other U.S. politician I can think of who is as extreme as Paul in not caring what anyone else thinks before giving his opinion, and he's leaving Congress in January as well. With the exception of war policy, they couldn't be further apart ideologically, but I'll be sad to see both of them go.

[Canuck-Hater]

Originally Posted by East Coast Flame

I saw a great tweet during Hurricane Sandy, it was something along the lines of:

"Libertarianism sounds great until your state is under 10 feet of water"

nm

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

Yeah, remind me how long it took FEMA to actually do anything?

As opposed to Bangladesh where they are just left to fend for themselves?

Thus far a havn't seen any reports of typhoid breaking out in New York as 'goverment response' is not just Fema, it is the whole of state, local and federal that keeps people reasonably safe and to be frank a crappy response is better than no response at all

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

Yeah, remind me how long it took FEMA to actually do anything?

Exhibit of simple mindedness.

Do you know who's covering the flood insurance?

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

nm

What's the point of deleting the contents of your post once it has been quoted?

It didn't go away, there is just one less copy of it.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by mariners_fever

But the rest of us can live in your dreamland utopia?

Well, the fact of the matter is, yes, since that's in general one of the principles of our existing society here in Canada. Or, you can go live in the la-la land that only exists in the dreams (as of yet, at least) of Ron Paul and his supporters. Your choice.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Max Cow Disease

Funny thing is, Paul's been a physician since the days of the Roman empire and witnessed the blatant downturn that the healthcare system in the US took when the government began to meddle and over-regulate, in terms of folks being excluded from care and unable to afford insurance (if Paul's outlook for healthcare and the economy in general would so favour large insurance companies/corporations, etc., you wonder why none of them are ever in his corner).

The idea that modern medicine can exist like it did 40-50 years ago is ridiculous. Medical care is more expensive now everywhere, not just in the US. It's more expensive because of the vast progress in technology that has led to both longer life expectancy (which leads to more expensive care in later years) and hugely increased non-labor costs in health care delivery. This Ron Paul quote about the "good ol' days" really sums up the disconnect between his opinions on the matter and reality:

[In the early '60s] every physician understood that he or she had a responsibility toward the less fortunate, and free medical care for the poor was the norm.

Offering pro bono medical care was a lot easier when basically all you were giving was your time. How do you give a free CAT scan or MRI, or chemotherapy, or organ transplant, or artificial hip, etc? You can't. Yeah we could have cheap '50s style health care if we're willing to forgo all of the medical advances since then, but I don't see too many people signing up for that.

Of course his solution to that is that charity will make up the difference for anyone that can't afford proper insurance or can't find a company willing to cover them. That too is laughable and one needs to look no further than his own circle to see this in action. Kent Snyder, his 2008 campaign manager who many credited with his fundraising successes, couldn't get affordable insurance because of a pre-existing condition and Paul's campaign didn't provide insurance for its employees. Snyder eventually got pneumonia while still on the job and died, racking up a $400K medical bill. His estate couldn't pay so the bill collectors then went after the guy's mom for the money and she couldn't afford it either. Eventually people tried to raise money to pay off the Snyder's bills but only managed to cover about 10% of the costs.

And keep in mind, this was a campaign manager for a presidential bid who was credited being the driving force behind Paul's campaign raising $20 million dollars and all he could get raised for his medical bills was a paltry $40K. How much is your average working poor person who only knows other poor people going to raise to cover their medical costs?

And it's not like Paul has ever tried to do anything to increase the number of insured people to prevent such things. Some of his policy highlights include:

-being the only member of Congress to vote against a bill which would prevent insurance companies from denying coverage based on a policy holder carrying a gene which is associated with developing disease.

-advocating the elimination of Medicare which would leave seniors to find their own insurance which would either be prohibitively expensive or impossible to find due to pre-existing conditions.

-staunch opposition of laws which require treatment of emergency patients regardless of their ability to pay

[Canuck-Hater]

Originally Posted by Plett25

What's the point of deleting the contents of your post once it has been quoted?

It didn't go away, there is just one less copy of it.

Because I thought he was referring to disaster relief. Which means I interpreted his post wrong. Jesus.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by East Coast Flame

I saw a great tweet during Hurricane Sandy, it was something along the lines of:

"Libertarianism sounds great until your state is under 10 feet of water"

Which is why, like with most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. The government does some things well. There are some things it should stay out of.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Ron Paul's a beauty...

Notice how a bunch of posts pigeon-holed him into a pure form of libertarianism, to make it look as though he is unreasonable or too extreme.

With the crowds he was drawing, Ron Paul could have taken the youth vote from Obama, but the establishment republicans sand-bagged him in the primaries.

Moncton Gold Flames is right, party politics ultimately has to go. Everyone picks a team (democrat, republican), attaches their ego to their team, and then has to attack and dismiss anything the other "teams" represent. It's chimps throwing poop at eachother.

At the very least they should allow 3rd party candidates to participate in the televised presidential debates. I would have liked to see Gary Johnson bring something fresh to the table.