Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

...because like smoking cigarettes, future research proves that it does much more harm than good to society.

If that was the case then we wouldn't see an ~55% drop in youth smoking cigarettes in the last decade. And the reason that has changed is because of tighter regulations and education. Once you educate someone they will make their own choice, but at least they know the risks, right now we hide drugs from kids acting like if we scare them into thinking there bad they won't do them. Instead we should be educating them on all drugs, including alcohol, cigarettes and pharmaceuticals.

Right now we educate kids that drugs are bad and you will go to jail. That is not a deterrent for anyone, including the youth, proven by the statistics of users across the country and statistics in other countries who have harsher punishments.

I just find it hard to imagine that once marijuana is legal everyone would do it. If that was the case you wouldn't see less than 1 in 5 Canadian's smoking cigarettes, that number would be much higher. You also wouldn't see a significant drop in people who drink alcohol in the past decade if people didn't make their own decisions.

The understand the fear of that happening but it isn't realistic, people don't have this urge to smoke marijuana but don't because they are waiting for it to be legal. You either smoke it because you want to, or don't smoke it because you don't. I've never met a person afraid to toke because it was illegal, it always comes down to personal choice.

[JohnnyHowDoO'duya]

Originally Posted by Mike F

This seems to be contradictory to the usual response from pro-legalization parties:

"There's no sense keeping it illegal since I can just walk out my door and buy pot as easily as alcohol."

"So if it's that easy to buy right now, why will anyone buy from legal dealers who have to charge a big surtax?"

"Because it will be so much more convenient than the run-around you have to suffer through now."

i already explained why i would be fine paying a premium due to taxes. would rather my $70 goto intiatives that benefit fellow Canadians than to have my $30 go to gangsters.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by HOOT

The understand the fear of that happening but it isn't realistic, people don't have this urge to smoke marijuana but don't because they are waiting for it to be legal. You either smoke it because you want to, or don't smoke it because you don't. I've never met a person afraid to toke because it was illegal, it always comes down to personal choice.

I would likely smoke the occasional joint if it were legal. Mainly because I am not "cool" enough to find where to buy it anymore nor to I wish to associate with an actual drug dealer. So the only time I end up smoking are the occasional time where I end up around people who are doing it. Which hasn't happened recently.

So I would go from essentially zero use to a few times a year if it were made legal. But I would also likely drink less as the occasions to get high or drunk are the same.

So I think by making it legal you would see a rise in adult (30 plus) usage as I am sure there are people like me who think its too much hassle to get so I might as well just get beer instead. Though none of these people would become problem users if it was legalized.

I agree that among underage people use would not increase because of legalization and in fact it would likely drop as it would become more difficult to get. One negative side effect might be that kids choose a different illegal drug as a drug of choice because it is now harder to get pot.

[puckluck2]

Make it legal in Canada already. The hypocrisy in the government is hilarious. They make money off lung cancer tax but will not allow you to smoke weed.

They KNOWINGLY allow a product to be inhaled that has been scientifically PROVEN to cause lung cancer.

I can't wrap my head around that, and I never will. It boggles my mind. Think about it for just a second. Forget what's right and what is wrong. They allow you to smoke something that has much worst effects than smoking marijuana.

[Weiser Wonder]

http://marginalrevolution.com/margin...atalities.html

A study was done on whether medical marijuana legalization correlated with lower traffic fatalies. Apparently it does, with states that legalized medical marijuana seeing a 8 to 11 drop in fatalies. There was also a "sharp" decrease in alcohol consumption and marijuana cost.

[zamler]

Well that settles it. Alcohol is a gateway drug to marijuana.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Originally Posted by nik-

Would you say the same thing during prohibition? And not just because you want to stay consistent in a message board discussion, but truly and honestly.

Yes I would, I don't partake in drugs now,but when I was younger I did, I knew going in there was a chance of getting caught. I think speeding laws are a joke,but I know the consequences and the rare time I get caught I pay it and move on with life. There are means that a group of people can do if they want to try and change things.

But all that said it should be legalized.

[Azure]

I hate to drag abortion into this, but like marijuana, making abortion illegal doesn't mean girls who are desperate enough won't get the abortion done even if it means in the back ally. We're better off making it legal and then focusing on 'other' methods like education and birth control to help prevent the reason someone might want an abortion. In the abortion threads I love to remind people that we're one of the few countries with no 'legal' limits on when an abortion can happen. Despite that, abortion rates in Canada have been dropping.

As much as I hate the idea of abortion, I can't argue with facts.

Marijuana is the same way. Legalize and focus on educational efforts to keep kids from doing drugs. While I was in high school the Alberta Government made a serious effort to educate kids about the effects of crystal meth, and IIRC, it resulted in crystal meth usage rates dropping over the subsequent years.

Banning something has never worked. People just think it does.

Archaic drug laws just serve to push down the minorities. Especially in the US where the drug war has affected black people a lot more.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Iginla

Make it legal in Canada already. The hypocrisy in the government is hilarious. They make money off lung cancer tax but will not allow you to smoke weed.

They KNOWINGLY allow a product to be inhaled that has been scientifically PROVEN to cause lung cancer.

I can't wrap my head around that, and I never will. It boggles my mind. Think about it for just a second. Forget what's right and what is wrong. They allow you to smoke something that has much worst effects than smoking marijuana.

According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, marijuana smoke contains 50 to 70% more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke, and the pot smokers usually inhale deeper and hold their breath, which can lead to an even larger increase in exposure to the smoke.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Azure

I hate to drag abortion into this, but like marijuana, making abortion illegal doesn't mean girls who are desperate enough will get the abortion done even if it means in the back ally. We're better off making it legal and then focusing on 'other' methods like education and birth control to help prevent the reason someone might want an abortion. In the abortion threads I love to remind people that we're one of the few countries with no 'legal' limits on when an abortion can happen, and yet abortion rates in Canada have been dropping in the past few years.

As much as I hate the idea of abortion, I can't argue with facts.

Marijuana is the same way. Legalize and focus on educational efforts to keep kids from doing drugs. While I was in high school the Alberta Government made a serious effort to educate kids about the effects of crystal meth, and IIRC, it resulted in crystal meth usage rates dropping over the subsequent years.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that draws parallels between these two subjects.

The key to impacting society in both regards is education. If you know that a substance will have all these devastating effects shortly after you start using it, you are not going to use it. Similarly if you understand things as rudimentary as how people get pregnant and how to prevent it and how to minimize std transmissions, will do nothing but lower unexpected events (Unwanted pregnancies or std)

I'm personally not a fan of abortions as well, but I definitely understand why it happens. That's why I'm in favour of educating people so that they are having sex safely and that if things do happen, that they have a safe way of getting it done instead of the back alley approach.

It's all about minimizing the negative impact on society on the whole, and while neither solution is awesome, it's the best one that's available.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, marijuana smoke contains 50 to 70% more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke, and the pot smokers usually inhale deeper and hold their breath, which can lead to an even larger increase in exposure to the smoke.

but how many cigarettes do you think the average smoker consumes in comparison to the number of joints for an average pot smoker? also there are methods available (eating, vaporizing) that have zero impact on the lungs

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

but how many cigarettes do you think the average smoker consumes in comparison to the number of joints for an average pot smoker? also there are methods available (eating, vaporizing) that have zero impact on the lungs

Who knows how much or how little it takes to cause cancer, especially when you add in things like hereditary predisposition, environmental factors, and weakening of the immune system with age.

I know the great majority, in later life, who have smoked, whether it's' cigarettes or pot, say, "I sure wish I had quit smoking sooner"

As for the other methods, I would guess it involves a small minority of pot users, and there hasn't been a lot of research on them.

[3 Justin 3]

Question: How would Canada legalize pot?

How did they do it in the states where each State had a vote? Was it because of a civilian petition, or did it come from the State government giving the voters an option to vote to legalize it?

Because with Harper and the conservatives in charge, decriminalization won't happen, let alone it being completely legal.

Would there need to be a petition of like 100,000 people (for example) sign it to legalize it or take it to a vote? How could Alberta do it and not Canada?

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

As for the other methods, I would guess it involves a small minority of pot users, and there hasn't been a lot of research on them.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0515151145.htm

A smokeless cannabis-vaporizing device delivers the same level of active therapeutic chemical and produces the same biological effect as smoking cannabis, but without the harmful toxins, according to University of California San Francisco researchers.

"We showed in a recent paper in the journal 'Neurology' that smoked cannabis can alleviate the chronic pain caused by HIV-related neuropathy, but a concern was expressed that smoking cannabis was not safe. This study demonstrates an alternative method that gives patients the same effects and allows controlled dosing but without inhalation of the toxic products in smoke," said study lead author Donald I. Abrams, MD, UCSF professor of clinical medicine.

And you are correct most marijuana users don't use a vaporizer because it's still a new technology in the scope of things. I personally use mine whenever I can, and whenever I have showed someone either my handheld or home vaporizer they want to know where to get one and most go get one. It's a changing culture in the way people are smoking marijuana and soon I think it won't be as uncommon to use a vaporizer in the next ten years.

"By a significant majority, patients preferred vaporization to smoking, choosing the route of delivery with the fewest side effects and greatest efficiency," said Benowitz.

Also the lungs don't have THC receptors like it does nicotine receptors so there is no delivery system to increase the chances of lung cancer from "inhaling deeper and holding their breath". Tobacco promotes tumor growth, while marijuana inhibits some types of tumors. Smoking anything is not going to be good for your body but marijuana (THC) on it's on hasn't proven to be dangerous or cancerous on it's own.

This is why most studies trying to link marijuana to cancer are filled with "may", "might", "could be proven later", etc. Even studies from the US government got a research group to change their paper from "showing no evidence" to "may lead to". There is no hard evidence showing it, they just have to assume it will have the same effects as tobacco.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

Question: How would Canada legalize pot?

How did they do it in the states where each State had a vote? Was it because of a civilian petition, or did it come from the State government giving the voters an option to vote to legalize it?

Because with Harper and the conservatives in charge, decriminalization won't happen, let alone it being completely legal.

Would there need to be a petition of like 100,000 people (for example) sign it to legalize it or take it to a vote? How could Alberta do it and not Canada?

Canada legalizing pot would probably have to happen similar to how the US is doing it. Municipalities, cities & provinces, would have to legalize it even though it would be illegal at the Federal level. It will force the Federal government to spend so many resources in fighting it themselves it would be near impossible for them to enforce.

Just like alcohol prohibition in 1920 it only took 3 years for the first state, New York, to vote to legalize alcohol. It was still illegal on the Federal level but state wide they were not enforcing it. By the time 1933 came around when the Federal government legalized it again, 17 states had already stopped the criminalization of it so the Federal government basically gave up because it became too much to enforce without the help of local law enforcement. And this is completely legal as was decided back in 1923 that states are not required to enforce federal laws.

Just like marijuana today, alcohol arrests were 90% local law enforcement, so when that helped disappeared (just like it hopefully will for marijuana) they had no choice but to come to a rationale decision to legalize it as there was no stopping it, no matter how much money they throw at it.

The problem for Canada is we are too afraid of what the US might do if we legalize it. I hear all these crazy stories about them shutting down trade or closing the border. But I just ask, where is California and other states going to get their power and water from if they do that?

For the US it will be a slow change as the main focus for the start of marijuana being illegal is to keep a certain segment of the population down. And as we have seen from these voter ID laws being put into place they still have a long ways to go. But they took a step in the right direction with Colorado and Washington, so it will be interesting to see how the Federal government reacts to it.

[flamesfever]

nm