Colorado Legalizes Marijuana For Recreational Use

[vektor]

Originally Posted by Mike F

This seems to be contradictory to the usual response from pro-legalization parties:

"There's no sense keeping it illegal since I can just walk out my door and buy pot as easily as alcohol."

"So if it's that easy to buy right now, why will anyone buy from legal dealers who have to charge a big surtax?"

"Because it will be so much more convenient than the run-around you have to suffer through now."

there's a difference between something being easy and it being convenient. I would be so much more happy if I knew it was regulated and I knew I was getting it from a reliable source as opposed to having no idea where it came from.

[flamesfever]

I think society would pay a price for condoning something like pot.

With traffic increasing with time, why would you want more pot smokers behind the wheel?

With health care costs out of control, why would you want something that has a potential detrimental affect on people's health?

With a crying need for a highly educated, skilled, and motivated work force, why would you want something that has the potential to negatively affect those attributes.

I witnessed drugs, including pot, having a deleterious affect on a whole generation of kids growing up in the 60's and 70's. A large number were permanently f'd up, and simply bowed out of mainstream society.

If I was raising kids these days, I would definately warn them about the dangers of using drugs, including pot.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I witnessed drugs, including pot, having a deleterious affect on a whole generation of kids growing up in the 60's and 70's. A large number were permanently f'd up, and simply bowed out of mainstream society.

haha what?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think society would pay a price for condoning something like pot.

With traffic increasing with time, why would you want more pot smokers behind the wheel?

With health care costs out of control, why would you want something that has a potential detrimental affect on people's health?

With a crying need for a highly educated, skilled, and motivated work force, why would you want something that has the potential to negatively affect those attributes.

Sounds like you'd be in favour of banning alcohol then right? Because all those arguments can be used against alcohol as well.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think society would pay a price for condoning something like pot.

With traffic increasing with time, why would you want more pot smokers behind the wheel?

With health care costs out of control, why would you want something that has a potential detrimental affect on people's health?

With a crying need for a highly educated, skilled, and motivated work force, why would you want something that has the potential to negatively affect those attributes.

I witnessed drugs, including pot, having a deleterious affect on a whole generation of kids growing up in the 60's and 70's. A large number were permanently f'd up, and simply bowed out of mainstream society.

If I was raising kids these days, I would definately warn them about the dangers of using drugs, including pot.

This is where the real world and the ideal world come into conflict. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your individual perspective, drug use is going to happen regardless of what anyone tries to do. This is evidenced by them finding drugs that are 2000 years old. It's going to be there no matter what anyone does to try to inhibit it.

The best way to address the issue is to find what is the best and least destructive method, and put it in place. The best one I can see is to legalize it, and to make things like safe injection sites available to those that need them. At those sites, have info for those that want to get away from drugs, but otherwise do not interfere. I know that doesn't seem like the best way to fix the problem, but there really isn't a better way that doesn't needlessly destroy lives (making it illegal and prosecuting people for using).

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

With traffic increasing with time, why would you want more pot smokers behind the wheel?

Do you believe that people only drink and drive because alcohol is legal? If alcohol were to be illegal again would drinking and driving disappear?

If you say yes then as a society we should look at an alcohol prohibition right away, we could save 1000's of lives. Or because you know nothing will change you regulate, tax and charge people who break the law for driving while intoxicated, marijuana or alcohol.

You deter people with tough penalties while driving on it. Similar to how BC has cut drinking and driving deaths in half since their harsher punishments, and are finding 70% roadside charges since. As of right now there are no roadside tests for marijuana so many people get away with and will risk it as it's hard to detect and be charged.

You educate young people the dangers of using drugs, including alcohol, because at the end of the day they will make their own choices, legal or not. As someone who grew up with marijuana around me all the time I never started smoking it til I was 19, and out of high school, because even though my father smoked it all my life to that point (he has now quit) I didn't feel the need to do it because it was around, that was my choice.

Toking and driving happens now (without a roadside test), people still continue to use marijuana at the same rate, legal or not, so health care costs are unchanged because of it, the crying need for workers is happening legal or not, and instead of educating children on the effects we are scaring them with jail and how "scary" drugs are. As for your 60's/70's reference that is complete and utter crap!

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Sounds like you'd be in favour of banning alcohol then right? Because all those arguments can be used against alcohol as well.

By making marijuana legal, it's adding one more thing to the pot (pun intended).

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

By making marijuana legal, it's adding one more thing to the pot (pun intended).

Florida, Texas and Arizona are in the top 5 for punishing people with marijuana possession, both Florida (14th) and Arizona (8th) are in the top 15 states for youth usage of marijuana, and Dallas is one of the top 10 cities in the USA for drug use, so punishment isn't always a deterrent. Just like legalization doesn't mean you will have people lining up to start smoking it.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

By making marijuana legal, it's adding one more thing to the pot (pun intended).

the thing is, you gain nothing by keeping weed illegal. those who want to smoke it, still will. in fact if you legalize pot, chances are the overall usage will drop, since you're removing the "rebel" label for teenagers. ever wonder why Canadian colleges and universities don't have the binge drinking issues that American schools have? maybe the fact that their students are "forbidden" to drink while ours aren't comes into play

all you're accomplishing by restricting pot to the black market is ensuring that all the money that goes into the industry is funneled to criminal organizations and cartels. don't you think having that money going into government and private sector funds would be a little more beneficial?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

By making marijuana legal, it's adding one more thing to the pot (pun intended).

I agree with you except that the alternative is worse. I'm sure more harm us done by the illicit sale and the consequences of criminal punishment of otherwise law abiding citizens.

This isn't a situation where one side is sunshine and rainbows and the other is evil. Our society would be better off without recreational use period, but that's not reasonable. It isn't very likely that pot consumption would rise greatly. As a Dutch citizen I can tell you it isn't widely used outside of Amsterdam where it's largely tourists.

As a pharmacist I can honestly say it's medical usefulness is quite limited and certainly not risk free. Having said that, apart from youth usage, it is reasonably safe.

All decisions such as these should be weighed in balance of both courses and find the road of less harm.

[OffsideSpecialist]

I really don't think marijuana usage would change at all with legalization. People are very out in the open about smoking it as is. I know I wouldn't run out of my house to buy dope just because it is legal (let's face it, if I want it enough I could get it now) and I don't think people would start driving high just because of it being legal.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

By making marijuana legal, it's adding one more thing to the pot (pun intended).

You do realize of course that by making marijuana illegal to use it does not result in any of the things you think it does, right?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

ever wonder why Canadian colleges and universities don't have the binge drinking issues that American schools have? maybe the fact that their students are "forbidden" to drink while ours aren't comes into play

Canadian colleges and universities have quite a bit of binge drinking actually. I lived with an alcoholic in residence although he was an exchange student from Germany. Which somewhat contradicts your argument since Europeans should be the least prone to binge drinking as they are exposed even earlier. I did however go to school in BC which somewhat simulates the American issue as first year students are still too young to drink and therefore experiment with it heavily at times. But a lot of the binge drinking I saw was from older students and exchange students.

[GGG]

I don't understand the support for decriminalization. Essentially you keep all of the problems of it being illegal. Gangs and violence associated with the illegal drug trade, forcing people to buy it from people who have access to harder drugs, makes in easier for kids to buy as it is easier to get pot than alcohol right now and makes it seem less illegal and therefore may increase use without getting any of the tax benefits from it.

Legalization is much better solution especially if you divert some of the tax dollars into treatment of those with addictions and increase funding to education and anti-poverty measures. You could leave the price of pot the same and have the government instead of dealers take the profit and use that profit to address the negative affects of drug use.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

By making marijuana legal, it's adding one more thing to the pot (pun intended).

Add me to the list of posters who disagrees with you and thinks that usage would not drastically increase were it legalized. Therefore it wouldn't substantially change much of the issues you are trying to hone in on.

The biggest changes would be to production, distribution and taxation. Crack down on grow ops, crack down on dealers and potentially adds more money to society to solve social problems through taxation and social programs. I don't think usage would drastically change and therefore its effect on society wouldn't change substantially either.

There will still be a social stigma against it especially amongst conservative and religious groups. Some people don't drink even though its legal and some people drink infrequently even though its legal. I think you'd find the same would hold true for pot and that not much would change. A certain % of the population will try it at least once (currently a high % and would remain so). a certain % of that group will enjoy it and want to use it frequently, a certain % of will enjoy it and want to use it infrequently, and a certain % will not enjoy it and never or almost never do it again.

Why do you think anything would change drastically if it were legalized?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Canadian colleges and universities have quite a bit of binge drinking actually. I lived with an alcoholic in residence although he was an exchange student from Germany. Which somewhat contradicts your argument since Europeans should be the least prone to binge drinking as they are exposed even earlier. I did however go to school in BC which somewhat simulates the American issue as first year students are still too young to drink and therefore experiment with it heavily at times. But a lot of the binge drinking I saw was from older students and exchange students.

I think everyone binge drinks at university by almost any definition.

Drinks until they cant remember,
Drinks until they pass out
Drinks until they puke
Drinks more than six drinks in a sitting
Drinks to get drunk
etc etc

When I went to the U of S I would say everyone (80%) binged drank at least once a semester and 1/4 drank to that extent every week. Now I haven't been to a US school but I think it would be difficult to have more of a binge drinking culture than is here.

I think the big difference is the level of drinking experience you have prior to binge drinking. In Canada I would argue that drinking increasing amounts of booze throughout highschool leads to more responsible binge drinking instead of leaving home having never drank before and starting to binge drink. The kids in school who hadn't drank before always got themselves in more trouble than ones who had some experience drinking

[polak]

I'd say more then 80%.

Out of my group of friends all the guys drink like that on a weekly basis. Including myself.

I'd say 90% of the students I know drink that heavily on a regular basis (at least a couple times a month)

[HOOT]

In the US there are 12 levels of punishment for small possession (1oz) of marijuana. Beside the state is their most updated US rank for marijuana usage in the past year.

1) 5 Years; $5000 Fine
Florida – 24th

2) 1.5 Years; $150,000 Fine
Arizona – 27th

3) 1 Year; $500 - $6,000 Fine
Alabama – 45th
Arkansas – 31st
Connecticut – 12th
Idaho – 43rd
Illinois – 28th
Indiana – 29th
Kansas – 44th
Kentucky – 22nd
Maryland – 29th
Michigan – 11th
Missouri – 14th
New Hampshire – 4th
North Dakota – 32nd
Oklahoma – 35th
Rhode Island – 3rd
South Dakota – 40th
Tennessee – 49th
Wyoming – 23rd

4) 6 Months; $500 - $1,150 Fine
Delaware – 20th
Washington, DC – 6th
Iowa – 42nd
Louisiana – 46th
Montana – 10th
New Jersey – 47th
Utah – 50th
Vermont – 2nd
West Virginia – 39th
Wisconsin – 21st

5) 180 Days; $2,000 Fine
Texas – 48th

6) 120 Days; $500 Fine
North Carolina – 41st

7) 3 Months; $500 Fine
New York – 15th
Washington – 16th

8) 30 Days; $1,000 Fine
Hawaii – 19th
Pennsylvania – 25th
South Carolina – 34th
Virginia – 36th

9) 15 Days; $100 Fine
New Mexico – 8th

10) 7 Days; $500 Fine
Nebraska – 38th

11) Probation
Georgia – 37th

12) Fine Only $100 - $1,000
Alaska – 1st
California – 18th
Colorado – 7th
Maine – 13th
Massachusetts – 5th
Minnesota – 17th
Mississippi – 51st
Nevada – 26th
Ohio – 32nd
Oregon – 9th

Highlighted are the top 25 (~ half) in usage to compare to where they sit on the punishment scale. This a great example of why punishment is not a deterrent, people will continue to use marijuana regardless of legal or not. You have the highest and lowest user states with the same fine only punishment.

Netherlands adult usage is 25% lower than the rest of Europe, and the percentage of people who have tried marijuana in the Netherlands is 48% lower than the USA.

So instead arresting 1,000,000 people in the USA for possessing a relatively harmless drug, you can use the resources to educate and treat people who need it. Treatment is not only cheaper than incarceration, but you can get better results to get the person back into society and lead a normal life, instead of back into the crime when released. Most times meeting and learning from harder criminals, not to mention they may be forced to live a criminal lifestyle since they won't be able to find a job with a criminal record for smoking some grass.

[flamesfever]

I certainly appreciate the arguments for decriminalization, and the last thing I want to see is a young person receiving a criminal record for smoking a joint. However, the debate seems far too one sided as far as young people are concerned. My fear is that another generation may have to suffer if it is made legal, because like smoking cigarettes, future research proves that it does much more harm than good to society.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I certainly appreciate the arguments for decriminalization, and the last thing I want to see is a young person receiving a criminal record for smoking a joint. However, the debate seems far too one sided as far as young people are concerned. My fear is that another generation may have to suffer if it is made legal, because like smoking cigarettes, future research proves that it does much more harm than good to society.

Actually studies have shown that less people use drugs in countries that have them legalized. Some of the appeal of it is because it's illegal.

There are people that are going to use regardless of what the punishments are.

The problem is that some people's head space is the in realm of wishing that things were ideal.

Ideally, every child would have two parents that were loving and supportive, that they would get a fantastic education and that everything would go correctly and there wouldn't be a need for things like abortion and illegal drugs and other such things and that everything would be good.

Unfortunately we live in a world that is very much less than ideal, so the best way of going about it is trying to minimize the damage that the negative aspects of people's behaviors are reduced systematically and the positive aspects are emphasized.

Legalizing marijuana is one of the things that helps to minimize one of the negative things in society, which is punishing people an extreme amount for an exceedingly minor offense.