General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The local government doesn't cover all the loses.

Note the use of 'essentially'

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Valo is right, there were a small but fairly idiotic and somewhat nasty contingent of Canadians acting like asshats in the discussion down there. Mostly Twitter.

Having read most of it, I would say it was bad on both sides, perhaps worse from the Phoenix trolls with lots of "frog" slurs.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

What reasons would those be? I've asked this many times before, why does anyone particularly care about the geographic location of the Phoenix Coyotes? What actual impact does it have on you?

I'd like to see the franchise somewhere that the fans cared about it. Cared enough that they actually were financially solvent. I'd like to see a full house when the Flames go to play so the fans bring some energy to the game. I enjoy the rivalry. A Coyotes franchise that could pay it's own way would mean less Flames money going south, so the Flames would be stronger financially.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

There probably is a nasty contingent of Canadians but that doesn't mean that Canadian hockey fans and really all hockey fans don't have good reasons for the movement of the Coyotes franchise.

Oh I completely agree with moving the franchise. And I've stated that quite emphatically in this thread. For financial reasons, league reasons, and personal fan reasons. But it doesn't mean people have to be maroons about it.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by troutman

Having read most of it, I would say it was bad on both sides, perhaps worse from the Phoenix trolls with lots of "frog" slurs.

Fair enough, I didn't see much of that. I was also under the impression that it was the Canadian fans that 'started it' by basically sticking their nose where it didn't belong. But I could be wrong about that.

It's isn't often you'll see me acknowledging a Canadian fault and backing up Americans.

[troutman]

Joyce Clark ‏@clarkjv
Trust me....unfiltered it will be. Catch me on Roc and Manuch this afternoon at 3:15 pm


Transcribed notes of Clark on the radio this afternoon:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...280017&page=13

Throwing Scruggs under the bus... Lame Duck member blah blah blah... Clarkonomics...

Glendale Republic coverage is bias

Risk Mgt situation is Scruggs card up her sleeve, as is hers (Clark)

Said she (Clark) has "in detail" descriptions of Agreement (thought they never had "clarity" before - must have gotten it yesterday)

Said some members want to put off vote on Coyotes till after January

You Canadian media members are "Trolls", rumor mongers, all in effort to get Coyotes to move to Canada

Emphasis mine - The Pro Coyote members are hell bent to cram this thru Nov 27th folks. They are even leaning on Skeete (she even said as much)

Says GJ is confident in is deal, Nov 20th will be the full reveal of the details to satisfy the week before vote procedure

Wants League to create a payment plan for them and confirmed the 2nd $25M is still in escrow

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I'd like to see the franchise somewhere that the fans cared about it. Cared enough that they actually were financially solvent. I'd like to see a full house when the Flames go to play so the fans bring some energy to the game. I enjoy the rivalry. A Coyotes franchise that could pay it's own way would mean less Flames money going south, so the Flames would be stronger financially.

Murray Edwards is apparently okay with the situation as is, and it's his money involved so let's leave the Flames financial strength out of it.

As for the rivalry element, unless the relocation was to western Canada (which is virtually impossible) nothing would change. Would the team playing in Seattle alter your experience? Kansas City?

I don't buy that the games would have more energy, I've seen plenty of sold out games from the Dome that have been dreadfully boring with little to no energy. I've seen incredibly intense games from Nassau Coliseum because the guys on the ice wanted to kill each other.

[troutman]

sonu munshi ‏@smunshi Chatted with Greg Jamison. Says he expects a vote to come before council within three weeks. #Coyotes

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Note the use of 'essentially'

I wouldn't call losing money a reason for staying a "no brainer".

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I wouldn't call losing money a reason for staying a "no brainer".

Really? So where should they be playing instead? Quebec? Yeah, great idea. Let's move a team into a crumbling arena for a couple of years as opposed to letting the local municipality cover a massive portion of our costs while we also keep open the option of finding a local owner and then getting an exorbitant expansion fee from Quebec. That's a brilliant plan.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Murray Edwards is apparently okay with the situation as is, and it's his money involved so let's leave the Flames financial strength out of it.

As for the rivalry element, unless the relocation was to western Canada (which is virtually impossible) nothing would change. Would the team playing in Seattle alter your experience? Kansas City?

I don't buy that the games would have more energy, I've seen plenty of sold out games from the Dome that have been dreadfully boring with little to no energy. I've seen incredibly intense games from Nassau Coliseum because the guys on the ice wanted to kill each other.

How can you speak for Murray Edwards?

A team playing in Seattle or QC would be far more interesting for me, especially if the fans were into it. We probably wouldn't see QC very often but just watching some games against the Habs or Sens would be great. We had a good rivalry during the WHA days. Seattle would be interesting too, I have relatives in Seattle who are fans and they have a long city rivalry with Vancouver. Just so you don't think I'm prejudiced against Phoenix, I also have relatives there. Kansas City, I don't have an opinion on but if they have good fans that would be good too.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Really? So where should they be playing instead? Quebec? Yeah, great idea. Let's move a team into a crumbling arena for a couple of years as opposed to letting the local municipality cover a massive portion of our costs while we also keep open the option of finding a local owner and then getting an exorbitant expansion fee from Quebec. That's a brilliant plan.

I think the payments to the NHL are about to run out.

I think moving to Quebec would be the logical plan. They'll be responsible for their losses or profits. Even if Phoenix gets an owner, under the new CBA the team will always be on the wrong end of revenue sharing.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

How can you speak for Murray Edwards?

A team playing in Seattle or QC would be far more interesting for me, especially if the fans were into it. We probably wouldn't see QC very often but just watching some games against the Habs or Sens would be great. We had a good rivalry during the WHA days. Seattle would be interesting too, I have relatives in Seattle who are fans and they have a long city rivalry with Vancouver. Just so you don't think I'm prejudiced against Phoenix, I also have relatives there. Kansas City, I don't have an opinion on but if they have good fans that would be good too.

Well seeing as the NHL, the entity in which he is a partner, currently owns the Coyotes and has been making the decisions on who owns the Coyotes where I feel pretty comfortable in saying he's okay with things. Even if he's not, the majority of the owners are.

Honestly, what difference does it make if fans are into it? You're watching on TV. Like I said, I've seen sold out games that sucked and half filled buildings with great games. You know why it didn't matter to me that the building was half full? Because I wasn't there, I was on my couch. I can get behind the 'I'd like Seattle because I go there a lot' argument (although I'd say Phoenix would win that argument in terms of number of visitors from the Calgary area, particularly during hockey season). What I can't get behind is the idea that where a game is broadcast to your TV from matters.

If they go somewhere that people really love hockey that's great, if they stay put I don't care. The situation interests me because of the multitude of legal, political and business issues that have come up along the way.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I think the payments to the NHL are about to run out.

I think moving to Quebec would be the logical plan. They'll be responsible for their losses or profits. Even if Phoenix gets an owner, under the new CBA the team will always be on the wrong end of revenue sharing.

Which is why my statements have been backwards looking

[nik-]

The words! We said negative words!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I can understand Bouw N Arrow as he has stake in this but you and Resolute have nothing.

Intellectual honesty is my stake. What's yours?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Intellectual honesty is my stake. What's yours?

You can hardly make a post without making it a personal insult and you talk about intellectual honesty.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

How can you speak for Murray Edwards?

That is pretty funny coming from someone who thinks he knows what Gary Bettman is thinking.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

You can hardly make a post without making it a personal insult and you talk about intellectual honesty.

This from the guy who went out of his way to respond to me a couple of days ago with something completely irrelevant all for the sake of acting like a child. C'mon man, I should probably have just ignored you so I'll take that part as my fault, but why you can't just move on is beyond me.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That is pretty funny coming from someone who thinks he knows what Gary Bettman is thinking.

Well Gary's thoughts are spelled out almost every day, Murray's hardly ever.