Mandatory sentencing for marijuana went into effect today

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by wookster

I really kind of scratch my head when people say that legalizing pot will mean no more drug dealers. Does anyone actually believe that the criminal element will just go away if this happens?

When's the last time you bought alcohol from a bootlegger?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by wookster

So you don't think that the majority of drug dealers might also be selling other "products" other than pot...."products" that they will still sell because there will still be a demand for it. Criminals are usually greedy, so if they can make $10,000 a week selling whatever illegally as opposed to making $2000 a week selling pot legally I'm pretty sure which route the majority will choose.

Here's the thing:

Black markets for legal products are almost always the result of fraud or theft.

Stealing goods is inherently more difficult than growing them for yourself.

The allure is the easy money that drugs provide. The rest of the ways organized crime make money aren't nearly as easy or as lucrative.

Drugs underwrite the cost of other, more nefarious and harmful activities.

[nik-]

I'm a Conservative voter but things like this are going to cost the Conservatives their majority in the next election and hopefully this eventually gets repealed.

We need to be able to learn from the mistakes of the judicial policies in the US and not repeat them.

[Erick Estrada]

I'm on the fence with the drug laws. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say I've never done it or don't like the occasional puff but I have friends that I grew up with that have had their lives permanently sidetracked due to chronic use. One guy was a brilliant guy with a calculator brain that now in his 40's works in a grocery store stocking shelves and the other painting for cash under the table and living in a trailer.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by wookster

So you don't think that the majority of drug dealers might also be selling other "products" other than pot...."products" that they will still sell because there will still be a demand for it. Criminals are usually greedy, so if they can make $10,000 a week selling whatever illegally as opposed to making $2000 a week selling pot legally I'm pretty sure which route the majority will choose.

Of course there is going to be a demand for other drugs however that demand has never been, and will never be, as high as marijuana. It is something like 80% of the organized crime in BC, and over 65% of the organized crime in Mexico are funded by just marijuana (heard on CBC program, can't find link yet). If you take that revenue stream away you take away money to fund harsher crimes.

Along with that because criminals will always be criminals you are giving more resources to the police because they are not chasing around a basically harmless drug. You can spend more on education and treatment for all drugs including marijuana and alcohol.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm on the fence with the drug laws. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say I've never done it or don't like the occasional puff but I have friends that I grew up with that have had their lives permanently sidetracked due to chronic use. One guy was a brilliant guy with a calculator brain that now in his 40's works in a grocery store stocking shelves and the other painting for cash under the table and living in a trailer.

People can throw away their lives on a lot of things.

Acohol, Video Games, Work, The list goes on.

You can't stop an abuser.

[vektor]

Originally Posted by wookster

So you don't think that the majority of drug dealers might also be selling other "products" other than pot...."products" that they will still sell because there will still be a demand for it. Criminals are usually greedy, so if they can make $10,000 a week selling whatever illegally as opposed to making $2000 a week selling pot legally I'm pretty sure which route the majority will choose.

every other thing out there is way too strong/synthesized. Most people who sell marijuana only sell marijuana by the way, and I stress most. It's like a line between the two because generally pot dealers aren't scumbag criminals and crossing the line into other things opens them up to violence and theft a lot more than just with pot. I've personally never heard of marijuana dealers and violent incidents (it probably does happen) and the demand you speak of is overwhelmingly for pot.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm on the fence with the drug laws. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say I've never done it or don't like the occasional puff but I have friends that I grew up with that have had their lives permanently sidetracked due to chronic use. One guy was a brilliant guy with a calculator brain that now in his 40's works in a grocery store stocking shelves and the other painting for cash under the table and living in a trailer.

but that's a reflection of their personality. There are many intelligent hard-working pot smokers, it effects everyone differently. I've got 2 degrees, a scholarship and an internship at a large oil company all while smoking way more than the average person, that being said it's not because of pot I am successful. It's just personality most of the time, some people who are susceptible to certain mental illnesses can trigger them by smoking pot and that's why real education is so much more important than fear mongering. Give a person pot with no mental illness in their family that is calm and tends to not get anxious they will be completely fine. Give a person with a genetic predisposition to mental illnesses pot while they are anxious and stressed out and you can trigger lifelong depression or schizophrenia. The more you know about how it works the more you can understand it's effects on different people. For some it relaxes and creates lethargy, for some it's a mental stimulant and an energy boost which is why it shouldn't be criminal. It's not physically addictive which means people should be free to decide whether they screw up their own lives. In a free society if you are allowed to buy alcohol you should be allowed to buy marijuana, of course there are some dangers to pot but it's never killed anyone.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm on the fence with the drug laws. I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say I've never done it or don't like the occasional drink but I have friends that I grew up with that have had their lives permanently sidetracked due to alcohol use. One guy was a brilliant guy with a calculator brain that now in his 40's works in a grocery store stocking shelves and the other painting for cash under the table and living in a trailer.

Well, the only difference is one is legal and one is not. And lets be real, alcohol has ruined substantially more lives than pot. Not even close, not even debatable.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Well, the only difference is one is legal and one is not. And lets be real, alcohol has ruined substantially more lives than pot. Not even close, not even debatable.

Everything is debatable regardless of whether the debate is rational or not. Just ask DementedReality.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Well, the only difference is one is legal and one is not. And lets be real, alcohol has ruined substantially more lives than pot. Not even close, not even debatable.

So you are saying since we make it easy for alcohol ruin people's lives we may as well make it easier to do it with pot as well?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Well, the only difference is one is legal and one is not. And lets be real, alcohol has ruined substantially more lives than pot. Not even close, not even debatable.

Not in my experience it hasn't and in fact alcohol and drug abuse go hand in hand. Making them both legal and widely available simply increases people's chances of ruining their life via one, the other, or both.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Azure

If the state gives 'growers' the ability to sell their stuff legally, and direct to the customer, people won't go to the drug dealer. They'll just go to the local marijuana dealer and buy from him.

Why wouldn't the drug dealers become extinct if that happens?

The suppliers are just as bad as the dealers. So people who have been supplying drug dealers for years, we are now giving them a legit source of income? Guys with heavy ties to criminal elements (and are criminals themselves).

Terrible idea. These pot farms need to be burned to the ground and these people need to be jailed before we can legalize pot.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So you are saying since we make it easy for alcohol ruin people's lives we may as well make it easier to do it with drugs as well?

No but you just proved that it doesn't matter if it's illegal or legal people will find a way to ruin their lives. I had a friend ruin a marriage, friendships, his work and his life over video games, should we ban those too?

[vektor]

Originally Posted by Locke

Everything is debatable regardless of whether the debate is rational or not. Just ask DementedReality.

incorrect.

Deaths caused by Alcohol poisoning in the US in one year:

80,000
http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm


Deaths caused by marijuana ever:

0

Where is there room for debate?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

If they ever get around to legalizing marijuana I hope they find a way of reducing the stench that comes from the smoke. Some people might like the smell, but I just can't stand it.

Vapourizers work pretty good for that, or so I heard. I'm not a pot user myself (although I am for controlled legalization).

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Not in my experience it hasn't and in fact alcohol and drug abuse go hand in hand. Making them both legal and widely available simply increases people's chances of ruining their life via one, the other, or both.

But since its been proven time and again you cannot stop people from drinking or doing drugs, why should we restrict them? As has been mentioned, all prohibition does is bring the criminal element into the equation. Unless you want to spend whatever it takes (and that will literally be hundreds of billions of dollars) to erradicate drugs, its just never going to happen. So why fight it?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by vektor

Deaths caused by marijuana ever:

0

End of story

Back when I dabbled in it, I always thought that I was going to be the 1st person to die from it. I was that guy... I think there is one in every bunch (which is why I don't do it anymore). I just couldn't handle the paranoia.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Not in my experience it hasn't and in fact alcohol and drug abuse go hand in hand. Making them both legal and widely available simply increases people's chances of ruining their life via one, the other, or both.

Studies have shown in countries who have decriminalized it have shown a decrease in use, including children. Portugal and Netherlands have some of the lowest marijuana user rates in Europe.

People who ruin their lives over marijuana would have found something else to ruin their lives with. It has nothing to do with the drug of choice, it's about the personality of the person.

Money is being wasted chasing and locking people up when it could be better spent helping the people who need it. In Portugal they went from locking up 100,000 people a year for drugs, to now being able to direct that to helping the 40,000 people with problems from drugs. Oh and that 40,000 has dropped in half in the last decade they have decriminalized drugs.

[Flash Walken]

Speaking of ruining lives, a criminal record for pot possession is right up there.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by HOOT

No but you just proved that it doesn't matter if it's illegal or legal people will find a way to ruin their lives. I had a friend ruin a marriage, friendships, his work and his life over video games, should we ban those too?

Playing video games doesn't impair your judgement. Like I said before I like the stuff in moderation but I'm taking an unselfish view on this topic. There's just no way you are going to convince me that the consequences of video game addiction is remotely close to what drug addiction can do to a person.

Addictive people will always find a vice wether it be drugs, alcohol, video games, sex, etc but drugs alter judgement and people without addictive personalities can easily get addicted. Like I said I've seen first hand what it can do and I don't want that to be an easy rout for my kids to follow by legalizing it.