Boy killed after falling into African wild dog exhibit

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Originally Posted by polak

Anyways like I said this is getting ridiculous.

All started by a guy posing "what ifs."

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Iginla

Yes I did. Episode was 20 bucks/ family friends. You're more than welcome to go watch it.

Let's see the case. Not a TV show. The case.

Even the names would suffice.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by valo403

You should probably do some cursory research on what you're talking about. There's a reason that these animals are known to attack their prey at certain points. Guess what it is?

Blind luck?

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm claiming that its official at this point.

Except there were no Fonzies in this thread. Only a fotze.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by valo403

Let's see the case. Not a TV show. The case.

Even the names would suffice.

I don't remember the names, but google is at your disposal.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by polak

I never said we had a bite advantage. I know we don't have any where near their bite strength but we still have a bite (as opposed to that herbivore impala) and there is a definite strength advantage. The average wild dog weighs between 35 and 60 pounds, even a small guy has large a strength and size advantage. Also if you really want to go into it, we also have the advantage of our ability to grip things with our hands, knowledge of basic anatomy (weak spots like eyes, wind pipe, gut) ability to work together much better then a pack of dogs and our use of tools so even in a pit you could pick up a rock or stick.

To others, don't give me anecdotal stories about how you couldn't pull a ball out of your dogs mouth. One, you may not be able to get the ball out but you were probably pulling the dogs whole body and two, I seriously doubt anyone would trying using maximum force in anything while playing with their pet.



Read my posts?
I said repeatedly, in bold letters, that I didn't expect anyone to jump in. I just posed the question "what if" someone did.

Anyways like I said this is getting ridiculous.

First of all, I believe the article said these dogs were 70-90 pounds, making them much bigger than your estimate here.

Secondly, what are you even arguing? You're saying there are all these intellectual reasons on why it would work, but in this instance there wasn't any (or very very little) time to react never mind logically think about a plan, or why one might be able to safely drive the dogs away and override their natural fear response to put that plan into action. Nevermind getting others to help you.

Are you actually disappointed that no one jumped into help, or are you just arguing your point cause you don't want to let go of it?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Iginla

I don't remember the names, but google is at your disposal.

So you want me to prove your wild claim for you? Is that accurate?

[Dion]

Autopsy: Boy bled to death in wild dog zoo mauling

PITTSBURGH, Pa. - The medical examiner's office says a 2-year-old boy who died in a U.S. zoo's African wild dog exhibit bled to death after he was mauled.

The Allegheny County Medical Examiner has yet to rule on the manner of the boy's death — that is, whether it was an accident — until police determine whether anyone will be charged.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...797/story.html

[blankall]

Some more facts here:

1) There were 11 dogs. African Painted Dogs to be exact.
2) Full grown African painted dogs are the world's second largest extant wild canid, second to only the grey wolf. They weigh up to about 80 lbs:
3)

The African wild dog has a bite force quotient (BFQ, the strength of bite relative to the animal's mass) measured at 142, the highest of any extant mammal of the order Carnivora, although exceeded by the Tasmanian devil, a marsupial carnivore.

4)

Wild dogs frequently kill larger prey via disemboweling, a technique that is rapid but has caused this species to have a negative, ferocious reputation. For this reason, even some early wildlife "conservationists", such as Carl Akeley[17] took pride in killing entire wild dog packs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Painted_Dog


No a single human would not have stood a chance against these dogs. You'd probably need at least 5-6 people. These are not golden retrievers.

[MrMastodonFarm]

The first page of this thread is the worst first page in the history of Calgarypuck.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by polak

I never said we had a bite advantage. I know we don't have any where near their bite strength but we still have a bite (as opposed to that herbivore impala) and there is a definite strength advantage. The average wild dog weighs between 35 and 60 pounds, even a small guy has large a strength and size advantage. Also if you really want to go into it, we also have the advantage of our ability to grip things with our hands, knowledge of basic anatomy (weak spots like eyes, wind pipe, gut) ability to work together much better then a pack of dogs and our use of tools so even in a pit you could pick up a rock or stick.

To others, don't give me anecdotal stories about how you couldn't pull a ball out of your dogs mouth. One, you may not be able to get the ball out but you were probably pulling the dogs whole body and two, I seriously doubt anyone would trying using maximum force in anything while playing with their pet.



Read my posts?
I said repeatedly, in bold letters, that I didn't expect anyone to jump in. I just posed the question "what if" someone did.

Anyways like I said this is getting ridiculous.

It is clear to me that you have a very poor understanding of canines, domesticated or otherwise.

Pound for pound, human's are terrible at melee combat. A full grown man cannot even handle a single German Shepherd (which is marginally bigger than one African Painted Dog). Weight is not a good indication of lethality.

This is a tragic situation and I don't think any measures taken would've changed the outcome.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The first page of this thread is the worst first page in the history of Calgarypuck.

Its not the classiest page ever, but worst ever? I think thats a stretch. Both sides have a point, they were just very blunt about making it.

[North East Goon]

I would have jumped in, tossed my kid 20 ft. in the air back to the viewing area. Then I would proceed to slap the biggest wild dog into a camel clutch mocking the others with this is all your fate now! Africa - Hack Too!!!

[Wormius]

All things being said, I think an adult male would have trouble dealing with even a single domesticated house cat if it had decided to attack. If an animal with claws and teeth has its will set on something, and there is more than one of those animals, I would place my money on the animal. It takes two people just to hold my cat down to trim its claws. Try to get it into a travel carrier to visit the vet? Not happening until the cat decides it wants to. I think you can apply this to any animal. I don't think grabbing and biting an animal would probably cause more harm than good. Where exactly do you grab an animal so you can bite it while it doesn't claw and bite your head and arms to shreds?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The first page of this thread is the worst first page in the history of Calgarypuck.

That's a massive reach. We've seen some real train wrecks.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Wormius

All things being said, I think an adult male would have trouble dealing with even a single domesticated house cat if it had decided to attack. If an animal with claws and teeth has its will set on something, and there is more than one of those animals, I would place my money on the animal. It takes two people just to hold my cat down to trim its claws. Try to get it into a travel carrier to visit the vet? Not happening until the cat decides it wants to. I think you can apply this to any animal. I don't think grabbing and biting an animal would probably cause more harm than good. Where exactly do you grab an animal so you can bite it while it doesn't claw and bite your head and arms to shreds?

Also some serious misconceptions about the size of these dogs here. People are assuming they are small, as their proportions are totally different than domesticated dogs. Only real google image I could find of an adult alongside a person:



You can see, these are not small animals. They also have disproportionately large jaws. Good luck taking one of these, let alone 11 down.

[Kidder]

Yes, this thread is starting to remind me of this CP thread from about seven years ago.

how many 5 year olds...

Maybe the real question is how many 5 year olds could a pack of 11 of these African wild dogs take.

[polak]

Originally Posted by blankall

Some more facts here:
No a single human would not have stood a chance against these dogs. You'd probably need at least 5-6 people. These are not golden retrievers.

... That is exactly what I've been saying the whole time.

I DO NOT THINK ONE GUY CAN TAKE ON 11 DOGS.

The weight I got was from the first two results on google.

I think people are grossly underestimating humans when it comes to fighting off or scaring an animal. I'm not talking about a fight to the death here.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Wormius

All things being said, I think an adult male would have trouble dealing with even a single domesticated house cat if it had decided to attack. If an animal with claws and teeth has its will set on something, and there is more than one of those animals, I would place my money on the animal. It takes two people just to hold my cat down to trim its claws. Try to get it into a travel carrier to visit the vet? Not happening until the cat decides it wants to. I think you can apply this to any animal. I don't think grabbing and biting an animal would probably cause more harm than good. Where exactly do you grab an animal so you can bite it while it doesn't claw and bite your head and arms to shreds?

You would find the cat would be alot more complient if you just stomped it several times and then trimed the claws of its bloody limp body, best to do this away from the wife though.

Seriously no one is assuming you would try to do a Ceaser on these dogs, picking up a rock and start braining them until enough are dead the pack gets the message would be the plan.

[Kidder]

Exactly, it's not about a Battle Royal. One man, 11 dogs, one winner.

It's about your presence staving off an attack on what the dogs perceive to be a lump of meat thrown in for feeding time.

Just looking at your picture, you see the dog is being held by a human. That one is probably fully domesticated, but zoo animals have experience with human (zookeepers) interaction.

Would the presence of a human portraying himself as alpha be enough to stave off an attack long enough for other help to arrive? That is the question.