Wear a poppy

[HELPNEEDED]

Alberta Beef:

You may not agree with the war, heck you may be totally against it! But you can never be against the Canadian men and women serving in such wars.

[Fluffy Bunnies]

Originally Posted by allicat

I don't often post here, but this thread has got me all riled up. I can't really come up with a coherent repsonse to such, frankly, ridiculous and extremely insensitive posts by those lamenting (and rather proudly) their decision not to wear a poppy

How is it you and others of the same opinion, cant fathom that somebody else in a free democracy, is choosing to excercise their right not to wear a poppy?

What is difficult to understand?

My respect for veterans doesnt hinge on a piece of velvet and plastic.

You are also free to wear one yourself. You know, like in a free country. Quit trying to take a non existent moral high ground.

[wookster]

Originally Posted by Fluffy Bunnies

How is it you and others of the same opinion, cant fathom that somebody else in a free democracy, is choosing to excercise their right not to wear a poppy?

What is difficult to understand?

My respect for veterans doesnt hinge on a piece of velvet and plastic.

You are also free to wear one yourself. You know, like in a free country. Quit trying to take a non existent moral high ground.

If you don't want to wear one, don't wear one. Your right, it is your choice, and I don't think anyone is saying "you have to wear one".

I think the frustration with a lot of people on here is that you choose to make a political statement out of your reason to not wear a poppy instead of honoring people that have made the ultimate sacrifice to allow people like you and I to have opinions and freedom. Kinda ironic really when in large part its the sacrifice of these people that allow us the freedom to voice opposition to our government.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by wookster

If you don't want to wear one, don't wear one. Your right, it is your choice, and I don't think anyone is saying "you have to wear one".

I think the frustration with a lot of people on here is that you choose to make a political statement out of your reason to not wear a poppy instead of honoring people that have made the ultimate sacrifice to allow people like you and I to have opinions and freedom. Kinda ironic really when in large part its the sacrifice of these people that allow us the freedom to voice opposition to our government.

Don't forget the classification of the military as "terrorists"

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

Alberta Beef:

You may not agree with the war, heck you may be totally against it! But you can never be against the Canadian men and women serving in such wars.

That's the thing. Whether you agree with the politics, it's still a huge sacrifice to be in the military.

I wear it more for the children and families of the people who miss their loved ones when they are serving overseas (especially since I live close to a base). I just think that if someone I loved was away for several months and in constant danger, I'd feel a little better knowing that people around me appreciated it.

Don't get me started on the politics though.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Fluffy Bunnies

How is it you and others of the same opinion, cant fathom that somebody else in a free democracy, is choosing to excercise their right not to wear a poppy?

What is difficult to understand?

My respect for veterans doesnt hinge on a piece of velvet and plastic.

You are also free to wear one yourself. You know, like in a free country. Quit trying to take a non existent moral high ground.

The problem a lot of people have with your stance is that you're choosing against an overt sign of support for the men and women in uniform (both past and present) because you disagree with the postion of your elected government, and you don't seem to understand the difference.

It is the military's job, to do what the rightfully elected government tells them to do, and in a democracy, being subordinant to that government and by extension the electorate, is fundamentally important. When the military becomes an independant body, and exerts it's own influence on the decision making process of a country, that is not democracy. Parliment says "Deploy here", they say "Yes Sir", that's the job they volunteered for, that's what we need them for, and agree with the reason or not, they derserve everyone's respect for going there.

You man not agree with some of the wars those men and women have fought, but you cannot blame them, it is your goverment's, and by extension, your fault that they were put into those situations.

Beyond that, those men and women put their lives on the line for many things other than wars you may or may not agree with. Things like search and rescue, disaster relief (both domestic and abroad), and peacekeeping, would not be possible without a well trained and disciplined military.

That's why people don't agree with you, becasue if you really understood the role the military plays (which I think it's pretty clear you don't), you'd have no problem putting on a poppy and showing your support and respect.

[CaptainCrunch]

I really had a problem with the whole equating the military with terrorism and frankly it boiled my blood a little bit.

There is no rule of engagement dictated by the Canadian Military or even the American Military to fight a war of terror on civilians unless someone can specifically point that out to me its a full of sh$5 argument where someone is applying a wide brush to a situation that they have no clue about and probably got from a pamplet.

Do civillian casualties happen in a theater of war? Absolutely, but the majority of those happen in a Western Army at a unit level and not a decision from a policy side to persecute the innocent.

If you look at Canadian actions and strategies in Afghanistan, they created the live with program where Canadian Troops were in among the villiages and tribes for the majority of their patrol time to discourage Taliban attacks on civillians and to gather intel on intentions so that they could remove IED's from unsafe areas and engage the Taliban in their own areas and gathering points and not among civillians.

Bad intel and bad decisions did more harm to civilians then any military policy.

A lot of civillian casualties happened because the Taliban and other groups like to congregate and meet at civilian gatherings or they cart their families with them to taliban camps.

A lot of civilian casualties happen because your fighting against a irregular group that dresses like the civillians there and create threatening environments.

But the conduct of Canadian's in Afghanistan have been excellent.

The Canadian Military is not the Syrian or Iranian or even the Chinese Military in the late 80's and early 90's and even to today where their effectiveness is based around the concept of terrorising your enemies on a civillian level until they cow down to your demands.

Personally I think that the American strategies in Iraq and even Afghanistan are not built around a ROE of terrorising or creating mass civilian casualties, however the changing face of warfare and the American reoliance on weapons technology and yes to an extent improper training lead to civilian casualties and not a direct intention to harm the innocent.

[MoneyGuy]

I wear my poppy proudly and I'm more now with Legionaires being sensitive about people tampering with the poppy by putting a Canadian flag into the centre to hold it in place. I don't really see the big deal, but they do and I try to respect that.

I have a huge beef with Alberta Beef's comparison of our military with terrorists. We have one of the most respected militaries in the world, and they're to be celebrated and respected, not disrespected in that manner. Brutal!

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I wear my poppy proudly and I'm more now with Legionaires being sensitive about people tampering with the poppy by putting a Canadian flag into the centre to hold it in place. I don't really see the big deal, but they do and I try to respect that.

I have a huge beef with Alberta Beef's comparison of our military with terrorists. We have one of the most respected militaries in the world, and they're to be celebrated and respected, not disrespected in that manner. Brutal!

I've never heard that before, what exactly is the problem with doing that?

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I've never heard that before, what exactly is the problem with doing that?

They don't want the poppy tampered with in any form. Put a Canadian flag onto you poppy and go to a Legion and ask a member what he thinks if you want to test it out.

This is a little different but in yesterday's Globe and Mail is an article about the Quebec premier getting hammered for putting the fleur de lys onto her poppy. Legionaires also don't like when the Canadian flag or anything but the black circle goes there.

[burn_this_city]

I love these kinds of threads, always brings out the idealistic dip####s who haven't got a clue how lucky they were to win the life lottery by being born in Canada. I'll always wear a poppy, it's a pretty insignificant gesture when you think about how much some people gave in times of war.

[getbak]

I work with a bunch of veterans, and even some of them use a flag pin to secure the poppy.

[wookster]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Don't forget the classification of the military as "terrorists"

How could I forget that gem! That comment must have left me in such a state of shock I menatally blocked it out...

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I love these kinds of threads, always brings out the idealistic dip####s who haven't got a clue how lucky they were to win the life lottery by being born in Canada. I'll always wear a poppy, it's a pretty insignificant gesture when you think about how much some people during times of service.

good post, just made one slight change.

[mrgreen]

I don't like the politics of wearing a poppy now. It's not just a symbol of respect and remembrance for those who served and died in the two world wars any more. I don't like the thought of people looking at it and making assumptions about my views and support of more recent conflicts, like Afghanistan, Iraq etc. Don't wear one other than on remembrance day itself.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by mrgreen

I don't like the politics of wearing a poppy now. It's not just a symbol of respect and remembrance for those who served and died in the two world wars any more. I don't like the thought of people looking at it and making assumptions about my views and support of more recent conflicts, like Afghanistan, Iraq etc. Don't wear one other than on remembrance day itself.

[allicat]

Originally Posted by mrgreen

I don't like the politics of wearing a poppy now. It's not just a symbol of respect and remembrance for those who served and died in the two world wars any more. I don't like the thought of people looking at it and making assumptions about my views and support of more recent conflicts, like Afghanistan, Iraq etc. Don't wear one other than on remembrance day itself.

Who are these crazy people making these assumptions? Never once in my life have I thought someone wearing a poppy had any sort of political agenda, or was 'pro-war'. Poppies show support for SOLDIERS, not wars.

[mrgreen]

I hear/read about the politics of the poppy fairly regularly in recent years around this time of year. I just think it's gotten more complicated and political as a symbol.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by mrgreen

I don't like the politics of wearing a poppy now. It's not just a symbol of respect and remembrance for those who served and died in the two world wars any more. I don't like the thought of people looking at it and making assumptions about my views and support of more recent conflicts, like Afghanistan, Iraq etc. Don't wear one other than on remembrance day itself.

Seriously, you don't get it.
The Poppy has absolutely nothing to do with individual wars, it is about the men and women who volunteered and risked their lives for an essential job.

Soldiers don't get to pick their wars, that's why they derserve everyone's respect and support. That's the point of the poppy, that there isn't a political aspect to it, and if you think there is, then you really don't get what it is about.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by mrgreen

I hear/read about the politics of the poppy fairly regularly in recent years around this time of year. I just think it's gotten more complicated and political as a symbol.

So maybe expand for me, if you can, your issues with the wearing of the poppy. I am trying to understand your thinking.