2012-2013 Toronto Blue Jays Off Season Thread - Page 6 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

TitovFTW · 10-21-2012, 06:01 AM

Perfect comparison Caged. People soured on Davis last year, but forgot that he he has great value as a 4th outfielder. The same could be said for Aviles who still posted a 2.0 WAR with his awful OPB. He's a versatile infielder who plays great defense and you literally got him for nothing.

bluejays · 10-21-2012, 10:17 AM

I like this article written in the Toronto Star. The writer was a little hard on Farrell, who had a good attitude as a manager, but his leaving won't be totally missed. His style will probably work better in Boston with the high priced egos, while Toronto can hopefully get somebody who is slightly more aggressive. As for the "trade", like the article said, Toronto got something for nothing. I think Aviles is solid in the world of shortstops, and will be a good bridge for easing Edny in. The writing is on the wall for Escobar, and now that the Jays are not in a good bargaining position with him, they'll probably get something small back for him. This offseason should be interesting.

KootenayFlamesFan · 10-21-2012, 12:17 PM

Well, it's not Adam Lind, David Carpenter goes the other way.

TitovFTW · 10-21-2012, 12:38 PM

At least it's over now. Winter meetings soon.

Flickered Flame · 10-21-2012, 01:46 PM

AA said today that he told Aviles that at worst he is the utility guy but is in the running as the 2nd baseman, depending on other moves. Obviously, I think the move really puts another move in motion (likely Escobar). The move itself cannot be judged until everyone sees what else comes from it. They got someone for a manager who didn't want to be there after year 1 so in that sense its already a win for the Jays but most fans expected the Jays to get a young arm in return for the manager and that is where the disappointment is, from most fans.

bluejays · 10-21-2012, 02:56 PM

^ I'd want Buckholz or some other young talent, but let's be honest here - it's a manager they dealt (not a knock on you, but the fanbase that had unrealistic expectations). To ask for anything more than they got would not be realistic. They can find a guy who can command the respect of others just as well. I'm with the article in my opinion - there's no need to judge how this will work out - it works for everyone right now.

Flickered Flame · 10-21-2012, 03:10 PM

I agree, I thought they'd get a B or C quality prospect. Good on the Jays moving a manager who didn't want to be there but AA has to make this hire his best move to date imo.

Where ru Chris O'Sullivan · 10-21-2012, 04:28 PM

Wow, put me down in the "we didnt get enough for Farrell here" group.

He might not mean a lot to Bluejays fans, but Boston sure wanted him....A 31 year old mid infielder....sigh.

moon · 10-21-2012, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

Wow, put me down in the "we didnt get enough for Farrell here" group.

He might not mean a lot to Bluejays fans, but Boston sure wanted him....A 31 year old mid infielder....sigh.

Theo Epstein, a much more valuable piece to a team, got a nothing prospect. Ozzie Guillen, a World Series winning Manager, got two nothing prospects.

Sure the Jays got basically nothing back but that is what you get for guys like Farrell. At least Aviles will likely spend some time on the Jays next year and may even make a play or two.

flames_fan_down_under · 10-21-2012, 05:34 PM

Well said Moon.

Happy with the return. Good luck in Boston Farrell. AA has a very busy offseason ahead.

Bowvechkin · 10-21-2012, 05:58 PM

I'll take Aviles over Kelly Johnson at second. Watching Johnson strike out every game is painful.

GirlySports · 10-21-2012, 06:01 PM

Except that Epstein and Guillen had already resigned or their contracts were ending so getting anything was better than nothing.

Jays had more leverage here. Boston really wanted Farrell and he had one more year on his contract. So they got more (Aviles) but they perhaps could have gotten more than that.

TitovFTW · 10-21-2012, 06:01 PM

What AA needs to do is have a strong offseason. The manager will only be as good as the team he has to work with.

Flickered Flame · 10-21-2012, 06:23 PM

Tim Lincecum will be a Blue Jay next season.

TitovFTW · 10-21-2012, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flickered Flame

Tim Lincecum will be a Blue Jay next season.

Not a chance in this world IMO. I don't see Giants selling on him when his value is this low and with the drop in his velocity, he'd have a 9 point plus ERA in the AL East. Although maybe you heard something my friend and I'll look like a fool

flambers · 10-22-2012, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitovFTW

What AA needs to do is have a strong offseason. The manager will only be as good as the team he has to work with.

For sure, what AA needs to do is make a major trade really quick in the off season for a really decent Starter.....

As for the Manager, its a messy situation.... Jays should take their time and find the right replacement...

TitovFTW · 10-22-2012, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

For sure, what AA needs to do is make a major trade really quick in the off season for a really decent Starter.....

As for the Manager, its a messy situation.... Jays should take their time and find the right replacement...

As a baseball fan, I'd love to see one right away, but I don't judge time as a factor. Most important thing is what this team is going to look like in the spring. I think the Jays are in a good spot here, they have a lot of trade assets, some money to spend outside of Adam Lind, no bad contracts. It's been a depressing 3/4 of a year for Blue Jays fans, but take a step back and this team is really not in that bad of a place.

The Red Sox are a total and complete mess. While I think they're a much more attractive free agency landing spot as we know ownership will pay and the history of this franchise entices a lot of players, they're still faced with a ton of question marks and no real strength in their lineup, rotation or bullpen.

Yankees are aging incredibly fast. Their rotation is in shambles and they'll lose Swisher. Again they have so much money and the onfield talent to attract big names. Still not a daunting task as it once was.

Baltimore relied on a lot of luck this season. Their offense is for real but that rotation is below average. Now a management group that has made questionable decision after questionable decision has a ton of key ones to make this offseason and history is not on their side.

The Rays still remain a force to be reckoned with because they have the best set of arms in the league and have them all locked down.

The Jays just need some good PR moving forward, forget this season ever happened and move ahead. I think people will be surprised how quickly things get positive around this team again if they have a strong offseason

TitovFTW · 10-22-2012, 10:25 AM

And in regards to Farrell: People need to realize the Jays were clearly not that high on him themselves, with no contract extension or any fight really put up when Boston called. This isn't a process you could really drag on well into the offseason. They're really not in a position to hold a manager hostage and it just wouldn't make sense. The Jays got a strong defender, who hits above average vs lefites and plays multiple positions.

Da_Chief · 10-22-2012, 10:52 AM

They're lucky to get anything in return. There's no way he would've been brought back. In the end Boston could've just said "fine, keep him" at that point Jays probably would've had to fire him. If a player demands a trade he can be talked out of it or brought back into the clubhouse but not your coach/leader/manager. I know this wasn't a demand by Farrell but reading what Anthoplius has said it basically was imo.

The Jays were in no win situation. They had to let him go.

GirlySports · 10-22-2012, 08:35 PM

Blue Jays’ manager search: A look at the candidates to replace John Farrell