Liberals introduce motion calling for formal process to repeal Indian Act

[Azure]

A debate about whether to repeal the centuries-old Indian Act is back before the House of Commons.

Last week, the Conservatives moved forward with a private members’ bill that would delete several sections of the act as a start towards fully dismantling it.

Now, the Liberals have introduced their own motion calling for talks with First Nations to replace the old legislation with something better suited to current realities.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4628506/

A debate this country needs to have. While not forced, the idea of the reserves are to be a form of segregation, and I would think in 2012 we would be long past that.

[polak]

Yes please.
The reserve system is so backwards it's not even funny.

Every single quality of life marker is lower for first nations people on the reserve then it is for those who are off of them.

There is also a lot of mismanagement of money and resources by First Nations leaders.

[Ozy_Flame]

The first thing that came to my mind was the completion of the ring road.

I'm horrible.

[undercoverbrother]

Do the Natives want the Indian Act repealed?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Azure

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4628506/

A debate this country needs to have. While not forced, the idea of the reserves are to be a form of segregation, and I would think in 2012 we would be long past that.

I agree. Whether it is self-imposed or forced, I can't think of a single example anywhere in the world of where segregation has lead to mutual peace and prosperity for all parties. There is almost always at least one side that gets the shaft.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by polak

Yes please.
The reserve system is so backwards it's not even funny.

Every single quality of life marker is lower for first nations people on the reserve then it is for those who are off of them.

There is also a lot of mismanagement of money and resources by First Nations leaders.

You seem to think that any new agreement would be free of political interference from the native leaders that currently benefit the most from the current system?

Call me skeptical, but I cannot envision a process that doesn't involve land transfers and massive one time payouts that won't be mismanaged by corrupt first nation leaders.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

You seem to think that any new agreement would be free of political interference from the native leaders that currently benefit the most from the current system?

Call me skeptical, but I cannot envision a process that doesn't involve land transfers and massive one time payouts that won't be mismanaged by corrupt first nation leaders.

True.
I really think the only way it will work is to some how dismantle the act without giving the leaders a say. I have no idea how to do that ethically but the system needs to go.

All of it.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by polak

True.
I really think the only way it will work is to some how dismantle the act without giving the leaders a say. I have no idea how to do that ethically but the system needs to go.

All of it.

That's exactly why the Indian Act is still in place today. If you cut out Native leadership and unilaterlally determine how it will be scrapped and removed then a lot of reserve residents are going to be quite pissed that they were forced off their reserves unilaterally by the 'White man' regardless of whether or not it's the right move.

The only way the Indian Act will be repealled and improvements made will be under a scenario where Native leaders come up with the optimal solutions on their own and take that to parliament. Therefore there will be political legitimacy behind it so their people can buy into the solution. The problem is asking the very people who take off the top, to propose to the government a system where they stop taking off the top. It simply won't happen. All of the land-claims, and self-government proposals thus far have really just proposed to give chiefs more power or more land to exert their power and influence.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by polak

True.
I really think the only way it will work is to some how dismantle the act without giving the leaders a say. I have no idea how to do that ethically but the system needs to go.

All of it.

Referendums. But then you get to deal with both sides trying to bully and intimidate residents on the reserves to vote their way. There are plenty of chiefs who will fight hard to save their cash cows.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

That's exactly why the Indian Act is still in place today. If you cut out Native leadership and unilaterlally determine how it will be scrapped and removed then a lot of reserve residents are going to be quite pissed that they were forced off their reserves unilaterally by the 'White man' regardless of whether or not it's the right move.

The only way the Indian Act will be repealled and improvements made will be under a scenario where Native leaders come up with the optimal solutions on their own and take that to parliament. Therefore there will be political legitimacy behind it so their people can buy into the solution. The problem is asking the very people who take off the top, to propose to the government a system where they stop taking off the top. It simply won't happen. All of the land-claims, and self-government proposals thus far have really just proposed to give chiefs more power or more land to exert their power and influence.

Sad but true. THis will never happen, no party has the will to ram this through.

Broken system will remain broken.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

That's exactly why the Indian Act is still in place today. If you cut out Native leadership and unilaterlally determine how it will be scrapped and removed then a lot of reserve residents are going to be quite pissed that they were forced off their reserves unilaterally by the 'White man' regardless of whether or not it's the right move.

The only way the Indian Act will be repealled and improvements made will be under a scenario where Native leaders come up with the optimal solutions on their own and take that to parliament. Therefore there will be political legitimacy behind it so their people can buy into the solution. The problem is asking the very people who take off the top, to propose to the government a system where they stop taking off the top. It simply won't happen. All of the land-claims, and self-government proposals thus far have really just proposed to give chiefs more power or more land to exert their power and influence.

I say this in jest, but they should sorta be used to that by now, shouldn't they? I mean, it's why they're in this position in the first place.

And while it might cause some bellyaching, after about six months of driving on first-world roads and not travelling back in time 50 years every time you go home, I'm sure the number of people missing reserve life would go down quickly. Most importantly, if people still wanna live together, that's why we have the northeast. It'll be good times.

But this current setup needs to change. Is the next iPod coming from a reserve? What about some new green energy? Something that gets a man to Saturn?

Don't take the land back, but stop treating it like it's something that exists outside the laws of regular society. And stop paying people to live in squalor.

[octothorp]

Yeah, this would get really messy, any way that it's done.

I look at the Osoyoos band and think, well, they're the example that all bands in Canada should strive toward. But then, not every band in Canada lives in winery and golf-course country. They've got both excellent leadership and fantastic resources to build on. I don't think you'd ever get away from the reserve system. Like cowboy89 suggests, the idea of dissolving reserves en-masse and attempting to transfer those assets to individual band-members would likely become a monumental clusterhump.

I think self-sufficiency needs to be planned on a reserve-by-reserve basis: go through and construct a plan with the leaders of each reserve outlining how they're going to become self-sufficient within a set timeframe. There are rewards for hitting milestones, penalties for failing them, and serious penalties for failing them through corruption and mismanagement (most importantly, a loss of autonomy in their decision-making). Dissolution of the reserve would only be an extreme, last-resort penalty for repeated blatant corruption and mismanagement. In some cases, self-sufficiency may not be possible: a northern tribe with few natural resources or assets might never be 100% self-sufficient, but could still maintain their status through good management and continued improvement.

[undercoverbrother]

How successful has SA been in the dissolution of Apartheid?

[NBC]

I wonder if in repealing the Indian Act, they will decide to rename it.

[schteve_d]

It needs to happen, no doubt about it, but oh boy do I see this being messy and expensive.

[mikephoen]

If someone actually found a way to solve this giant mess that worked for most involved, they would win the Nobel Prize.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Do the Natives want the Indian Act repealed?

I suspect the answer is yes and no.

[sevenarms]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

If someone actually found a way to solve this giant mess that worked for most involved, they would win the Nobel Prize.

I think the only qualification for the Nobel Peace Prize these days is being able to tie your shoes 2 times out of 3.

[rayne008]

Give every native person $500,000.
All lands go back to the crown.

As of January 1st, you are Canadian and that's it.

[Joborule]

This is actually good if we're starting the process of removing the reserves system and do something better for the natives in this day and age.