Official World Cup 2014 Qualifying Thread (Blame It On RIO)

[polak]

I'll take the draw

Looks like it'll be quite the battle to qualify from group H

[calgaryrocks]

[QUOTE=St. Pats;3899480]
Men. Well if you don't mind holding down another job as well there is the CFL. If they are actually a top football player then it's south of the border they go.
QUOTE]
to echo the previous poster, there are not many places to make a great living playing a sport, and fewer when you are talking about individual based sports. most is in the states or europe, where high population and dense areas make it possible. Canada is very spread out.
also, most players don't need to hold down a job while playing in the CFL. the average salary is over $80,000, which is pretty decent. though, like the NHL, that is skewed upwards. the minimum salary is somewhere arond $40k. Yep, it isn't that much, but certainly liveable.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

it's coaching

Europe has the best coaching in the world, Canada does not

Canada has a 30m population with the best hockey coaching in the world, and it shows

This is it. Does Canada have elite players? Nope. Does it have a group of good useful mid-table level players? You bet. Do they have the third best talent pool in CONCACAF? I'd say so. Costa Rica, El Salvador, Panama, Jamaica, Honduras and T&T are no better player for player, they're all MLS, local league or low level Europe players as well.

Canada needs a top-tier coach capable of coaching mid-table players. I'd be scouring Serie A and Bundesliga for coaches that fit that mold (EPL may be too high profile/expensive, and La Liga is the wrong style).

No more Stephen Hart/Dale Mitchell beer league coaches whose only real experience is Canada NT. Its no coincidence the last time Canada was any good, it was with Holger Osieck (aka a legitimate European coach with real experience).

They may as well hire me if all they want is some cheap local with CSA coaching certificates.

[Locke]

Cue Roy whinging about the pitch.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

it's coaching

Europe has the best coaching in the world, Canada does not

Canada has a 30m population with the best hockey coaching in the world, and it shows

Quoted for truth.

The Dutch have a population half the size of Canada's, yet are considered top five in football.

It all comes down to the quality of youth systems, coaching, and opportunities to transfer from amateur status to professional.

I suspect we won't see consistent quality footballers come out of Canada until development clubs such as the TFC Academy or Whitecaps FC U-23 are in full swing, and can allow transfer/loan arrangements with other development clubs, ideally in the English or Western European system. Bring in seasoned, winning coaches and the chance to ball against other development teams as well, and there is a good chance. Sponsorships would ideally be ample and generous as well. Just like hockey players, footballers need good equipment, support and resources to maximize their games.

[The Goon]

So is that it for Canada then? One game has taken away their chances?

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by valo403

Newsflash, it's not likely anywhere. And color me stunned that there are more opportunities in the worlds largest nations. Absolutely stunning that a nation of 30 million doesn't have the same professional sports landscape as a nation of 300 million.

And I'm sorry, if you play an obscure sport you're going to have to deal with going places to play it. I have a ton of friends who play hockey in Australia, and guess what, they have to deal with hauling their gear to remote rinks that don't have glass and barely have slush let alone ice, buying up a years supply of sock tape when they head over to Canada on vacation and generally spending a lot of money for less. But guess what? That's how it works when you play a sport that the majority of your country doesn't care about. This attitude that Canada should be accommodating every sport is ridiculous. Do you think people in Thailand bitch about not being able to find a good bobsled track?

What's your solution? Start a Canadian women's basketball league? I mean the WNBA is doing so well, I'm sure Canada could support a league of its own. We should definitely have professional badminton, the masses are just begging for that.

You make my own point. The Canadian masses aren't begging for anything including the major sports. There is a grand total of one baseball team, one NBA team and zero NFL teams. Hockey is it for the major sports and even on those two teams(NBA,MLB) finding a Canadian player isn't an easy task. Hardly obscure those sports and still the masses ain't begging even for them.

Soccer is the most popular game in the world ---chances of playing it in Canada --very slim and at a mediocre level at best.

Look at the sporting landscape in a country like Australia. Numerous leagues including Yep a women's pro basketball league. Population? 20 mil maybe.

Scotland as another example. Tiny population. Pro soccer league, pro rugby teams etc. Supporting a dozen or so teams in the Scottish Premier League and two rugby teams all with a pop of something around 1/6 of Canada.

Which was my point in the first place and one that you confirmed. The masses in Canada don't have a longing for sports. Major or otherwise.

[polak]

Originally Posted by The Goon

So is that it for Canada then? One game has taken away their chances?

Thats it. They're done.

But it wasn't one game. It was a 6 game group stage.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Quoted for truth.

The Dutch have a population half the size of Canada's, yet are considered top five in football.

It all comes down to the quality of youth systems, coaching, and opportunities to transfer from amateur status to professional.

I suspect we won't see consistent quality footballers come out of Canada until development clubs such as the TFC Academy or Whitecaps FC U-23 are in full swing, and can allow transfer/loan arrangements with other development clubs, ideally in the English or Western European system. Bring in seasoned, winning coaches and the chance to ball against other development teams as well, and there is a good chance. Sponsorships would ideally be ample and generous as well. Just like hockey players, footballers need good equipment, support and resources to maximize their games.

They have a 12 team super league and the population ain't anywhere near half of Canada's. They have like 1/5 the population. Yet another country where sports is ingrained in the culture.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

You make my own point. The Canadian masses aren't begging for anything including the major sports. There is a grand total of one baseball team, one NBA team and zero NFL teams. Hockey is it for the major sports and even on those two teams finding a Canadian player isn't an easy task. Hardly obscure those sports and still the masses ain't begging even for them.

Soccer is the most popular game in the world ---chances of playing it in Canada --very slim and at a mediocre level at best.

Look at the sporting landscape in a country like Australia. Numerous leagues including Yep a women's pro basketball league. Population? 20 mil maybe.

Scotland as another example. Tiny population. Pro soccer league, pro rugby teams etc. Supporting a dozen or so teams in the Scottish Premier League and two rugby teams all with a pop of something around 1/6 of Canada.

Which was my point in the first place and one that you confirmed. The masses in Canada don't have a longing for sports. Major or otherwise.

That's where you're going to point? Really? A country that goes bat#### for a couple of sports, two of which it plays almost exclusively, and couldn't care less about anything else? That sounds familiar doesn't it?

AFL and NRL games are packed, Super 14 varies by team and season to season and cricket has a decent following for big tests. AFL and NRL passion and attendance is about on par with what Canada has for hockey, and don't try to count that as two national sports because outside of NSW and Queensland people don't care about NRL and in NSW and Queensland the appetite for AFL is relatively small. Canada can add the CFL to it's list, which more than offsets the cricket following in Australia.

Now let's discuss Scotland. Yep, they have second and third (if not below) soccer. Well that's great. And they have some rugby. Okay. And?

The masses in Canada have a longing for plenty of sports, the fact that they aren't women's basketball (which absolutely no country has a longing for, let's see those packed attendance figures for your Australian league) and badminton doesn't change that. Hockey, football, baseball, basketball and soccer all have large followings in Canada. I can point to second and third tier leagues in each of those sports if you'd like, or I can point you to a sports bar on an evening with a big game in any of those sports being played.

Somehow you've confused the presence of top level sports teams with a passion for a sport. Oddly enough you've also pointed at the presence of lower level teams in other nations as some sort of proof, which is quite convenient. Canada doesn't have an NFL team because there's only one city (maybe 2 with Vancouver) that fits the mold of an NFL city from a financial standpoint. The same goes for MLB and the NBA. That's going to happen when you're a small country and you are talking about the absolute highest level leagues in the world.

[polak]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

They have a 12 team super league and the population ain't anywhere near half of Canada's. They have like 1/5 the population. Yet another country where sports is ingrained in the culture.

They're also as competitive as Canada in both Olympics (We'll see how Canada does in the next winter games post-Vancouver)

[valo403]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

They have a 12 team super league and the population ain't anywhere near half of Canada's. They have like 1/5 the population. Yet another country where sports is ingrained in the culture.

How about we shift the sport to football from soccer, then I could point at the lack of a national football league in the Netherlands as proof that they do not have sports ingrained in their culture. Or I could point to the fact that their national hockey league is one of the weakest in Europe. Yep, proof that they don't have a sports culture. They also suck in sliding sports. Bad sports culture.

Should I go on?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by polak

They're also as competitive as Canada in both Olympics (We'll see how Canada does in the next winter games post-Vancouver)

7 of 8 medals in Vancouver were in speed skating

[Arsenal14]

What I'd like to see happen is the CSA asking CONCACAF to include us in the Central American zone for the purpose of Gold Cup qualifying.

Right now the Caribbean teams and Central American teams each play a regional tournament every two years with the top teams qualifying to the Gold Cup. The US, Mexico and Canada have automatic berths. This would give us some meaningful games against the Central American teams where if we play reasonably well we should still qualify. Right now they get 3 qualifiers from 7 teams (Panama, Honduras, Costa Rica, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Belize). With our spot it would be four out of eight.

This would have a few benefits to Canada:
1. Extra games in Central America (the 2013 tournament is in Costa Rica)
2. Extra games against Central American teams
3. More experience in these high pressure "win to qualify" type games
4. More chances to cap tie potential defectors
5. A higher spot in the FIFA rankings and chance to be seeded for the next qualifying draw (these tournament results are why Cuba was seeded this time - they did well in the Caribbean qualifying while we were just playing friendlies).
6. More chances to have our team play. Period.

The benefit to the Central American teams would be an extra qualifying spot and likely some additional revenue if a Canadian broadcaster decides to show the games.

[polak]

Some one should start a seperate thread about the Canada-sports discussion.

Originally Posted by Arsenal14

What I'd like to see happen is the CSA asking CONCACAF to include us in the Central American zone for the purpose of Gold Cup qualifying.

Right now the Caribbean teams and Central American teams each play a regional tournament every two years with the top teams qualifying to the Gold Cup. The US, Mexico and Canada have automatic berths. This would give us some meaningful games against the Central American teams where if we play reasonably well we should still qualify. Right now they get 3 qualifiers from 7 teams (Panama, Honduras, Costa Rica, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Belize). With our spot it would be four out of eight.

This would have a few benefits to Canada:
1. Extra games in Central America (the 2013 tournament is in Costa Rica)
2. Extra games against Central American teams
3. More experience in these high pressure "win to qualify" type games
4. More chances to cap tie potential defectors
5. A higher spot in the FIFA rankings and chance to be seeded for the next qualifying draw (these tournament results are why Cuba was seeded this time - they did well in the Caribbean qualifying while we were just playing friendlies).
6. More chances to have our team play. Period.

The benefit to the Central American teams would be an extra qualifying spot and likely some additional revenue if a Canadian broadcaster decides to show the games.

This might backfire but I agree. Canada needs more games with these countries. Concacaf couldn't care less about Canada's requests though. Unless this request some how improves the USA's chances, it won't get any attention.

Canada should try and join UEFA
Hey! It's technically closer to Europe (Danish Greenland) then Central America!

[troutman]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

Soccer is the most popular game in the world ---chances of playing it in Canada --very slim and at a mediocre level at best.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer_in_Canada

Despite the difference in popularity of their respective professional leagues, association football overtook ice hockey in the 1980s and 1990s as the sport with the most registered players in the country. In 2008, there were 873,032 footballers,[14] compared to 584,679 registered hockey players in Canada in 2008-09.[15]

CSA 2011 Annual Report
http://www.canadasoccer.com/files/CSA_2011AR_EN.pdf

44% of Canadian youth under
age 12 participate in soccer

• Number one sport for boys and
girls aged 5-14

• Estimated 1M participants
within 2-3 years

• 2 million volunteers

Sport Participation in Canada, 2005
http://sportsofficials.ca/UserFiles/...MIE2008060.pdf

Canadian children play a lot of soccer

Soccer has become the sport of choice for Canadian boys and girls 5 to 14 years
old. It has ranked as the number one sport activity for active children for many
years. In 1998 soccer led all sports practiced by children, and this ranking continued,
reaching 44% participation in 2005. The rate of involvement in soccer was the
same for boys and girls despite the fact that overall, boys tend to be more active in
sport than girls.

In 2005, more than half (55%) of boys were active in sport compared to 44%
of girls. Just like their adult counterparts, participation was concentrated in a few
sports. In addition to soccer, girls were more involved in swimming, basketball and
ice hockey. Boys engaged mostly in soccer, ice hockey, swimming and basketball,
in that order. For children in this age cohort, therefore, the choice of sport activities
is similar for boys and girls although the ranking differs. It is worth noting that
nearly three times as many girls played ice hockey in 2005 as in 1998.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by polak

Some one should start a seperate thread about the Canada-sports discussion.



This might backfire but I agree. Canada needs more games with these countries. Concacaf couldn't care less about Canada's requests though. Unless this request some how improves the USA's chances, it won't get any attention.

Canada should try and join UEFA
Hey! It's technically closer to Europe (Danish Greenland) then Central America!

That's not a bad idea.

Australia joined Asia and Kazakhstan joined UEFA.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

The masses in Canada don't have a longing for sports. Major or otherwise.

BS.

Canada has three national TV sports networks. Most cities have at least one all-sports radio station. I don't think there are many countries that are more passionate about sports than Canada. Participation in sports is very high. Interest in professional sports is enormous.

Comparison with other countries
http://sportsofficials.ca/UserFiles/...MIE2008060.pdf

In 1992, the results of the General Social Survey showed that 45% of Canadians
aged 15 and older or 9.6 million people participated in sport. In 1998, the figure
dropped to 34% of the population. By 2005, the number of participants had decreased
further to 7.3 million Canadians, representing 28% of the population.

According to the 2005 Canadian Community Health Survey, 13.8 million
people, representing 51% of Canadians aged 12 and older, were involved in leisuretime
physical activity of some sort.

[NBC]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

They have a 12 team super league and the population ain't anywhere near half of Canada's. They have like 1/5 the population. Yet another country where sports is ingrained in the culture.

Netherlands - 16.7 million

Canada - 34.4 million

Pretty close to half the population. Soccer mad. Field hockey and volleyball round out the top 3. I wonder how may people would have guessed that?

[Lego Man]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

Really? Pretty obvious you don't have kids in sports. Rugby yes is an obvious one as there are zero opportunities here. You can't even play it at university level as it's not a varsity sport on the men's side. Volleyball has professional opportunities in Europe for men and women. Ditto Basketball with either the States or Europe providing the vast majority of chances to play. Almost entirely if we are speaking about the women's game. Pro track opportunities again are in Europe etc. as are badminton, soccer. Heck even snowboarding it's head south of the border to try and get on the Dew Tour or to Europe. Speed skaters are huge stars in Europe/Asia and virtually unknowns here. It goes on and on and on. Making a living at playing sports in Canada? Not likely. Heck even in hockey it's not likely. More likely than not playing in the States or in Europe. Baseball it's south of the border yet again. Golf--yep south/Asia/Europe.

I mean I'm hard pressed to think of any sports that Canadians actually support or where there are opportunities to play professionally. What sports are there in Canada where women can make a living playing professionally? I suppose a handful of curlers? That's half the population done for.

Men. Well if you don't mind holding down another job as well there is the CFL. If they are actually a top football player then it's south of the border they go. Curling again.

Unfortunately this is my world we are talking about. Myself and the myriads of other parents with kids who are wanting to play sports at a high level and aspire to do it professionally. What are we doing? Spending oodles of cash on sending them to the US or Europe or down to Australia etc. so they can have a shot at their dream. Trying to get them scholarships to US college's, trying to get them into academies across the world. Sending them off on trips to play their sport in countries where it's a big deal as compared to the obscure thing it is here(that covers so many sports it's not funny) Trying to give them opportunity and being almost totally unable to keep them here in Canada.

I completely agree with most everything you mentioned. Edited because went way off topic!