I really hope that the increased visibility that occurred due to us getting close leads to more pressure on the Canadian Soccer Association. The real issue stems from the bottom up and qualifying likely would have just been putting lipstick on a pig.
For too long the issue has been out of site out of mind in Canada. When you are never even close to qualifying people just forget the program exists and its not an issue.
With getting this close though and then losing in such an embarrassing fashion when the team was in the spotlight it might hopefully lead to more pressure to actually put some more funding into the program and rebuilding it from the youth teams up.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SuperMatt18 For This Useful Post:
Was there a tonne of depth to choose from though? From now to 2015, Canada needs to focus on developing talent domestically. That means the Canadian MLS clubs need to continue developing players through their Academies, and pushing them through the first team. That is the key to this team getting better.
I imagine players like Morgan, Cavallini, Borjan and Teibert will take over from Hirschfeld, de Rosario, Jazic et al for the next qualification cycle.
Yup I think this campaign was a good stepping stone. It was dark dark dark in 2009. It was unwatchable!
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
It's not like the UK is some warm climate oasis. They have miserable weather there too.
France: Soccer, Basketball, Motorsports, Handball, Rugby, Tennis, Cycling are all sports that they blow Canada away at and actually support with REAL passion. On top of that, France is a top 10 country in both olympic games.
Canada: Hockey, Curling (lol)... We'd be okay if there was any sort of international competition with Lacrosse or football... Thats it. The vast majority of Canadians could not name one player from the Canadian olympic basketball or (last) baseball teams and we're not great in either.
Individual olympic sports are hard to classify because many countries have a few athletes that are decent in a variety of sports. That doesn't mean they're some avid supporters of the sport. That usually comes with consistency. Canada had a period of time where they had great sprinters, but we're hardly a nation of sprinters... Poland for example, has a great cross country skier right now... Doesn't mean that they're a cross country power.
I'd give Canada Speed Skating and Rowing as we tend to consistently excel at those.
Soccer is obviously conceded as is basketball for the time being, but the gap is closing rapidly.
Motorsports is more a question of what you're discussing, if we include CART Canada has a great history of drivers and has produced tremendous F1 drivers as well.
Handball? I'll counter that with lacrosse.
France is a strong rugby nation, but we're closing the gap on Italy.
Tennis? France seems to produce a few decent players here and there but so does Canada. France is stronger, but they aren't a top tennis nation.
Cycling? Again, depends what you're talking about but Canada currently has one of the top cyclists in the world and has been a top level track cycling nation for quite a while.
As for the Italian examples, you're realllllllly stretching. Italy is not a top basketball nation and I have never heard anyone talk about Italy as an elite swimming nation.
The major point is that you are willing to stretch to name sports in other countries but for Canada you just throw it in there like it doesn't count. We have one of the greatest speed skating programs in the world, are sliding sports are among the best, are rowing is excellent, are rugby team is probably the second best non-traditional power team in the world, we produce a considerable number of elite football and baseball players and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
But yes, a country that topped the winter Olympics medal count and finished 13th in London is obviously a terrible sports nation
The Following User Says Thank You to valo403 For This Useful Post:
8-1 the Canada Mens program just put itself back 20 years of progress. No pride what so ever. They finally get some attention over the past months and they lose 8-1 to Hondoras like they were playing the best Brazillian team of all time.
If this was hockey it would be the equivalent to Canada losing 30-1 to any top hockey country.
That 8-1 loss was unfortunatly disgustingly laughable.
They are going to have to pull alot of strings and luck attracting and keeping your best players Soccer Canada.
Yup I think this campaign was a good stepping stone. It was dark dark dark in 2009. It was unwatchable!
We cannot look at the point total and say "Oh, we got 10 points, almost where we need to be!" Don't forget, Canada didn't play the real powerhouses in CONCACAF in the US and Mexico, and didn't play any teams that historically push us around like Jamaica or Guatemala.
The draw to us for the third round was very, very favourable. In 2018 it won't be.
Was there a tonne of depth to choose from though? From now to 2015, Canada needs to focus on developing talent domestically. That means the Canadian MLS clubs need to continue developing players through their Academies, and pushing them through the first team. That is the key to this team getting better.
I imagine players like Morgan, Cavallini, Borjan and Teibert will take over from Hirschfeld, de Rosario, Jazic et al for the next qualification cycle.
There are lots of players playing all over the world who didn't even get a sniff in WCQs. Basically he chose the strategy of committing to a group of 16-18 guys and going with them come hell or high water.
When you're not even willing to look at players outside your preferred group you end up with situations like Ledgerwood or Ricketts who have not left the bench at club level starting in a game of this magnitude. Those guys wouldn't even be in the side for most national teams if they're not playing. Just being associated with a club means absolutely nothing when you are a full time backup.
I think even more unforgivable was only calling up 21 guys on the 23 man roster for some reason (with no backup forwards other than Hume) and needing to call Cavallini in last minute to make the game in Honduras when they went down to 20 guys after Occean's suspension... Just why? Are you trying to save money on flights? I'll pay for a leg ffs. Any two of Edwini-Bonsu, Friend, Cavallini or Haber - not amazing depth, but depth is there. I mean there was depth there at every position, maybe not amazing players but guys who are playing and could have provided options... they just weren't used.
There's clearly a commitment to go with "his guys" when you've got a young kid in Uruguay starting in the top league and scoring goals... who isn't even in the side let alone starting because Ricketts is blocking him who isn't even starting in Norway of all places and has 20 club games in 3 years?
Canadian program's problem in past years is it's unwillingness to give people outside their core group much of a look and they do it at every level. It alienates players and has cost us quite a few who had multiple nationalities as well after they felt slighted. Just not a responsive program at all which basically ignores the modern practice of cup tying players. Hart was a product of the Canadian national team system and not someone who was ever going to drive change on those fronts.
The Following User Says Thank You to Matty81 For This Useful Post:
Canadian program's problem in past years is it's unwillingness to give people outside their core group much of a look and they do it at every level. It alienates players and has cost us quite a few who had multiple nationalities as well after they felt slighted. Just not a responsive program at all which basically ignores the modern practice of cup tying players. Hart was a product of the Canadian national team system and not someone who was ever going to drive change on those fronts.
Agree completely. A guy like Begovic would have been the #1 keeper for years on Canada, but they call him up and don't cup tie him. Months later he's playing for Bosnia because he has no idea if he's even wanted in Canada.
We cannot look at the point total and say "Oh, we got 10 points, almost where we need to be!" Don't forget, Canada didn't play the real powerhouses in CONCACAF in the US and Mexico, and didn't play any teams that historically push us around like Jamaica or Guatemala.
The draw to us for the third round was very, very favourable. In 2018 it won't be.
True.
But i think their style was better.. I like their ball possession (at least in the Toronto games).
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
Agree completely. A guy like Begovic would have been the #1 keeper for years on Canada, but they call him up and don't cup tie him. Months later he's playing for Bosnia because he has no idea if he's even wanted in Canada.
Bull****. Begovic was officially cap-tied to Canada under the old rules as he had played for us at the U20 World Cup. Then FIFA changed the rules so that only World Cup or Confederation Championship games or qualifiers would count and he took the chance to bolt. You can't blame that on anybody but the player. Similarly there can be no argument that guys like Jonathan de Guzman or David Hoillett don't know that Canada wants them. They just don't want to be a part of developing our program or leading the way for the next generation and instead want to step in once the team has "proven itself worthy of them". Tomorrows headlines will likely include the news that de Guzman no longer has any interest in us (again) and the Hoillett has chosen to play for Jamaica.
And Canada's men's team will continue to suck and future players will continue to use our suckage as an excuse not to play for us and on and on the cycle goes.
Bull****. Begovic was officially cap-tied to Canada under the old rules as he had played for us at the U20 World Cup. Then FIFA changed the rules so that only World Cup or Confederation Championship games or qualifiers would count and he took the chance to bolt. You can't blame that on anybody but the player. Similarly there can be no argument that guys like Jonathan de Guzman or David Hoillett don't know that Canada wants them. They just don't want to be a part of developing our program or leading the way for the next generation and instead want to step in once the team has "proven itself worthy of them". Tomorrows headlines will likely include the news that de Guzman no longer has any interest in us (again) and the Hoillett has chosen to play for Jamaica.
And Canada's men's team will continue to suck and future players will continue to use our suckage as an excuse not to play for us and on and on the cycle goes.
Hey, I'm not saying it's all on the coach. The players have to want to play for Canada and it's clear that they have to want to be with the team through thick and thin, and it's a lot more thin than they want to handle.
But, Begovic was called up twice by the senior team and didn't see any action in games that would've cap tied. He dressed in the final game in the 2010 WCQ with Canada already eliminated and didn't see any playing time. Why not? As a result, we have a player in the Norweigan league as our #1 GK, and not someone from the EPL. Hirschfeld has played well this round (minus his red card in the Cuba game), but he's not in Begovic's league.
__________________
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to shermanator For This Useful Post:
Yep you're right, he sat on the bench when we were already out in 2008. Away to Jamaica in the last game of the round Canada started Hirschfeld and kept him on the bench. Shortly after Bosnia approached him and he switched.
Canada lost 3-0 in a totally meaningless game with this lineup:
Lars HIRSCHFELD (GK)
Adrian CANN
Andre HAINAULT
Nik LEDGERWOOD
Paul STALTERI (C) (-65')
Chris POZNIAK
Will JOHNSON
Charles GBEKE
Marcel DE JONG
Kevin HARMSE
Issey NAKAJIMA-FARRAN (-69')
That was our lineup preparing for the next cycle. No new callups and basically no youth. Sorry except Gbeke who was already 30.
Yep you're right, he sat on the bench when we were already out in 2008. Away to Jamaica in the last game of the round Canada started Hirschfeld and kept him on the bench. Shortly after Bosnia approached him and he switched.
Canada lost 3-0 in a totally meaningless game with this lineup:
Lars HIRSCHFELD (GK)
Adrian CANN
Andre HAINAULT
Nik LEDGERWOOD
Paul STALTERI (C) (-65')
Chris POZNIAK
Will JOHNSON
Charles GBEKE
Marcel DE JONG
Kevin HARMSE
Issey NAKAJIMA-FARRAN (-69')
That was our lineup preparing for the next cycle. No new callups and basically no youth. Sorry except Gbeke who was already 30.
Well, I dunno, Hainault was 22 and Johnson and de Jong were 21. And all 3 will be around for the next cycle.
I think it is imperative that this team cap as many young players as possible during Gold Cup 2013. Get guys who are on the fence like Keven Aleman and Michal Misiewicz cap tied and build around them.
__________________
Last edited by shermanator; 10-16-2012 at 06:31 PM.
Again though, unless we had some reason to believe that the rules were about to change, saying "games that would've cap tied" him was meaningless since we all thought that he was already cap tied to us. Could we have given him a shot anyway as a way to get some young players experience? Certainly. But it wasn't that we blew a chance to tie him to us.
As for the youth in that lineup against Jamaica: Johnson was 21, Hainault & De Jong were 22, Ledgerwood 23 and Nakajima 24. We certainly expected them to be a part of our core for this round. Of course, I still don't understand the Gbeke pick and Stalteri was already done by that point so there was room for new blood.
.....France: Soccer, Basketball, Motorsports, Handball, Rugby, Tennis, Cycling are all sports that they blow Canada away at and actually support with REAL passion. On top of that, France is a top 10 country in both olympic games.
Canada: Hockey, Curling (lol)... We'd be okay if there was any sort of international competition with Lacrosse or football... Thats it. The vast majority of Canadians could not name one player from the Canadian olympic basketball or (last) baseball teams and we're not great in either.
Individual olympic sports are hard to classify because many countries have a few athletes that are decent in a variety of sports. That doesn't mean they're some avid supporters of the sport. That usually comes with consistency. Canada had a period of time where they had great sprinters, but we're hardly a nation of sprinters... Poland for example, has a great cross country skier right now... Doesn't mean that they're a cross country power.
I'd give Canada Speed Skating and Rowing as we tend to consistently excel at those...
This is a very poor comparison and not accurate, fact is Canada was top of the table at the winter games and certainly had more skiing/snowboarding golds then both France and Italy. Are you going back to Killy and Theoni? Soccer, well we are better at the womens game then Italy or France which makes us even! Cycling, you have got to be kidding our guy won the giro!!
Poland is not a good example to bring up right now, you have to go back to Lato and those guys for a decent team. Sorry but your list is outdated.
Certainly a very tough loss, but ultimately not a time to dump on Canada.
The Following User Says Thank You to Flamenspiel For This Useful Post:
