I am disappointed they are getting rid of the 108. I had a short walk to a stop on Richmond Road and a direct bus. Now I have to take a commuter bus, probably the 306 on the 37th street, to the train. How much parking will there be at the Westbrook station?
Depending on where you live, you could 93, or the 306. Or walk to the 112 for a direct route.
Canceling those bus lines seems to be counter productive for a city trying to get people out of their cars. There comes a point where transferring again just isn't worth it, and I'm sure some will start taking their cars again.
Why can't we just the the train line AND the buses. This way more people have easier access to public transit, instead of just shifting that access to another part of the region.
The 301, 101 and 104 are being adjusted to go to Westbrook station. Everyone has to transfer there.
I've hated the idea from day 1. I called the City and emailed them multiple times over this issue, and have vented to them repeatedly. They keep telling me the new four-car trains are going to be more than enough to handle capacity.
I'll give them a bit of a break - I'd like to see how the new system works first, but I have serious hesitations it would improve anything there is right now. I can just see a giant cluster#### at Westbrook Station that is going to piss off ALOT of people.
And think about this - all those people waiting for these same buses (including myself) now are going to clog up the train stations out of downtown. It is going to be ugly, shoulder-to-shoulder Tokyo-style crowding to get on these trains back home.
I believe my commute has just gotten alot more complicated. More incentive to cycle or walk, even if it takes longer.
Alright, I've told you this a million times now. Crowding will not be an issue on the West LRT. You may not get a seat, but you'll get on the train, even if it is a 3 car train.
SOME of the transferring/ bus changes gripes may have legitimacy, but your (reapeated) capacity concerns don't add up.
The feeder bus -> LRT model works very well in the NE, South and Northwest (and increasingly so the further out you go) because the distance that the (usually circular) bus route doubles back on itself (from the trip origin) to get to the LRT station is much smaller in scale than the distance to downtown (the destination).
With the west (and probably most pronounced in the Coach Hill community), the double-back distance is much more comparable in scale to the distance that would otherwise be traveled in a straight-line distance to downtown.
The trip time (or perceived trip time due to the transfer, which psychologically feels longer) may be added to if you were to compare it to directly before LRT implementation to directly after.
Where the new network will shine is days when the road network is congested and the LRT's exclusive right of way can bypass it.
As road routes to/from downtown are inevitably more clogged in the future, the feeder -> LRT system will become more attractive and will actually offset the effects of this congestion for everyone else (i.e. it will delay, probably permanently, the need for road improvements or augments to/from the core).
The feeder bus -> LRT model works very well in the NE, South and Northwest (and increasingly so the further out you go) because the distance that the (usually circular) bus route doubles back on itself (from the trip origin) to get to the LRT station is much smaller in scale than the distance to downtown (the destination).
With the west (and probably most pronounced in the Coach Hill community), the double-back distance is much more comparable in scale to the distance that would otherwise be traveled in a straight-line distance to downtown.
The trip time (or perceived trip time due to the transfer, which psychologically feels longer) may be added to if you were to compare it to directly before LRT implementation to directly after.
Where the new network will shine is days when the road network is congested and the LRT's exclusive right of way can bypass it.
As road routes to/from downtown are inevitably more clogged in the future, the feeder -> LRT system will become more attractive and will actually offset the effects of this congestion for everyone else (i.e. it will delay, probably permanently, the need for road improvements or augments to/from the core).
Perhaps there should be a shuttle from Coach Hill to Bow Trail and 45th ST and back.. would solve the problem of kids going to the two junior highs there.
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Not sure if this is just temporary but the intersections on 17th ave and the AMA building seem to be quite the congestion point this week.
Looks like they are taking away the left turn option at EB 17th ave and 47th street forcing everyone to turn left at the light of 17th and 45th street. Combine that with numerous buses in the right hand lane and it's backed up from 45th st up the hill to Westside in the mornings.
Why can't we just the the train line AND the buses. This way more people have easier access to public transit, instead of just shifting that access to another part of the region.
Money. In a world of (very very) limited funding, having a lower order and much more labour intensive mode (buses) provide redundant service to the higher order mode (LRT) just isn't the most effective way to make use of funds when presented with a mandate to provide service to the whole city.
Truthfully, if Calgary had gone with this model, the LRT would have been deemed a failure long ago sinceit never would have attained the ridership necessary to call it a success because of people who didn't want to switch from the bus.
Alright, I've told you this a million times now. Crowding will not be an issue on the West LRT. You may not get a seat, but you'll get on the train, even if it is a 3 car train.
SOME of the transferring/ bus changes gripes may have legitimacy, but your (reapeated) capacity concerns don't add up.
I've been coming down this route for years. I know exactly how many people get on/get off, and where, and what the reduction of three buses is going to do. Add in the fact that Westbrook Station is going to be the feeder hub for a good chunk of buses, and you're going to get capacity issues.
I'd be willing to put money on this. I can immediately see that my commute is now going to be longer. Especially coming home when everyone leaves at 5 and we have to crowd the platforms with the Crowfoot line.
I've been coming down this route for years. I know exactly how many people get on/get off, and where, and what the reduction of three buses is going to do. Add in the fact that Westbrook Station is going to be the feeder hub for a good chunk of buses, and you're going to get capacity issues.
I'd be willing to put money on this. I can immediately see that my commute is now going to be longer. Especially coming home when everyone leaves at 5 and we have to crowd the platforms with the Crowfoot line.
Prove me wrong.
I wasn't refuting your commute time, I was refuting your constant claims that you won't be able to get on trains.
I already did prove you wrong - at least as much I can do before the thing opens - with projected ridership figures. The West line will be joined with the NE line. Take the proportion of the perceived crowding on the NE line and compare it proportionally to the projected ridership of the West line. That is how "crowded" the West line will be, which by my own categorization is "not overly" where the classic Tokyo example (which you've invoked) would be "extremely" a south line train at the height of the boom would be "very" and an empty bus tooling around Tuscany (not the real one, the ridiculously-named Calgary one) at noon on a weekday would be "not whatsoever."
West LRT just doesn't have near the catchment (area nor population) that the other lines have - especially the south line and probably never will.
Agreed; you'll have NE-line level service to an area that is going to have much lower ridership.
Ozy, what does sharing a platform with Crowfoot passengers have to do with anything? You'll get to laugh at them while you board significantly less busy trains and unlike them, might even get a seat. Go hang out at Sunnyside station in the mornings and try and catch an inbound train and then you'll see how nice things will be for the West line (for time being)
I just want to clarify one thing, you keep mentioning that Westbrook will be a pinch point for all feeder lines. While a lot of routes do go to Westbrook, a vast majority of them feed to 69th St. Station beforehand. The 93/94 (Strathcona/CoachHill) feed to Westbrook only after they've delivered the bulk of people to 69th St.
^Yeah. West LRT is lucky to have 2 major transfer stations actually (with a third "lesser" station at Sirocco). It will be a much better distributed transfer/boarding situation than most other lines.
If the south line wasn't so busy as a whole, it too would share this trait with major transfer stations at Chinook, Anderson and Somerset (and more minor ones at Heritage and Fish Creek).
Compare that to the situation in the Northwest where almost all the ridership boards/disembarks at Crowfoot and Dalhousie. Although SAIT and University stations are fairly major stations for boarding too - a lot of that occurs in a counter-rush-direction.
Truthfully, if Calgary had gone with this model, the LRT would have been deemed a failure long ago sinceit never would have attained the ridership necessary to call it a success because of people who didn't want to switch from the bus.
I always wonder how a route like the 10 is allowed to survive year after year. In certain places from Brentwood in the NW to Chinook station in the south it mirrors the ctrain line.
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Originally Posted by red sky
I am disappointed they are getting rid of the 108. I had a short walk to a stop on Richmond Road and a direct bus. Now I have to take a commuter bus, probably the 306 on the 37th street, to the train. How much parking will there be at the Westbrook station?
Yeah, I think this is a mistake. I've brought it up with frinkprof a couple times. I guess they will still have the 112... but the 108 is a busy busy route during the commute.
Agreed; you'll have NE-line level service to an area that is going to have much lower ridership.
Ozy, what does sharing a platform with Crowfoot passengers have to do with anything? You'll get to laugh at them while you board significantly less busy trains and unlike them, might even get a seat.
Last I checked, West LRT doesn't have its own platforms - unless you suggest I wait somewhere else downtown at 5 o'clock seperate from Crowfoot LRT passengers?
My point with this is that right now, there is less crowds waiting for buses on the way out of downtown. It's going to get significantly more crowded now that we're funneling the bus crowd to the same platforms as all the other train passengers.
And I do strongly believe that Westbrook station is going to be a pinch point, especially, as frinkprof indicated, that the 69th street and Sirocco stations are going be funnelled the bus crowds more so.
I fully understand I will get on a train at Westbrook, but unlike being able to comfortably get on a bus and pick a bus that is less busy, I will likely be shoulder-to-shoulder with packed train-goers hoping to get on the next line.
Frinkprof, I don't dispute your facts - but predictions are all subjective until we actually see how the crowds are going to be managed in reality. I understand your optimism about the whole thing, but I personally don't see it happening. I don't think there's any way to change my opinion on this until I see for myself that the models are actually true.
Do you think that the southside platforms are overcrowded in the afternoon rush? That side has 2 outbound routes running on it during that time.
Well "crowded" is a subjective term, but yes, I do think they are overcrowded, especially more so now that Martindale and Saddletown are added to the mix.
That said, some platforms are more crowded than others. City Hall station wouldn't be as busy as others. For myself, I'm probably going to be detouring there when I can.
