New Edmonton Arena Construction will begin in March 2014

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Calamity

I love the Flames but it is ridiculous how owners want public money for buildings that NEVER give back enough to the city monetary wise in the long run (studied Sports Econ, I know it's a fact). - And if they work out a deal where the city will get their investment back through parking, concession etc., the team will do everything they can to break the lease when opportunity is given (Glendale).

What?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

For sure. But that balance sheet could have holes.

It was explained to me but not sure I am smart enough to get it or even if its true, so I am not trying to convince anyone.

What interesting is that rumours were swirling in edmontons connected crowd 2 months ago.

I'm sure his balance sheet looks much better than mine, but drug reform has made huge holes in the valuations and profitability of his pharmacy business to say the least. Add in the fact that he recently sold his franchising banners (For close to a Billion $), it can't be as good as it was a couple years ago.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...article554558/

[seattleflamer]

Katz would NOT like the Seattle deal since he would share all the downside risk with Hansen with no government backstop and no tax breaks. And b) he would be the junior partner with probably a less than favorable stake in other arena revenue generating activities than he'd have in Edmonton.

Worse case scenario for Katz is he raises capital by selling some equity in the Oilers to make up the difference in funding if the corporate financing/government subsidy route doesn't work out.

He's got a sweet heart deal in Edmonton and just seeing how much farther people will bend.

[mister__big]

Katz is just pissed and embarrassed that the City basically called his bluff, and now instead of backing down gracefully he goes into turbo drive hoping there'll be some gullible people who'll buy his act.

Bottom line, he's not gonna get a better deal than the one that's already on the table. And by dragging this further Katz risks losing the entire city's goodwill and the deal might get pulled.

[darockwilder]

I'm in Seattle right now and Katz was one of the top stories of the day here (after the football game). All I can say is that Seattle knows how to build awesome sports facilities and with the approval by city hall for the basketball/hockey arena the NHL would be foolish not to get in here.

A nice side effect would be the deterioration of the Canuck fan base.

[Matty81]

Man the Oilers have been an embarrassment for the last half decade... the constant bad PR with players, horrible roster moves and now they're making headlines across the country talking about relocating?

I totally think it's just about leverage, Katz is way too much of a little Oilers fanboy to relocate them but what does he actually hope to accomplish here? Basically dragging the organization's name through the mud, yet again, to try to bilk more money out of hard working people who pay taxes. Does he think Bettman is actually going to let him relocate from a market that is willing to heavily subsidize a team + actually has fans when he's been so hardheaded in Phoenix? Would be the ultimate hypocrite move.

Why the hell hockey owners should get huge capital investments to subsidize their businesses when everybody else is pulling their own weight is beyond me. If you gave me a couple hundred million I could start up a business that would pay some of it back in property taxes too.... hope their city council tells Katz to take a hike.

[DementedReality]

Typical NHL MO, but now they are bullying the tax payers instead of the players and most of you are willing to say F off in this case. A slight glimpse into how and why the players are responding to NHL style "negotiations".

[bubbsy]

it's fortunate that the oilers have a very strong fanbase. A lockout, then this type of story has got to hurt the fans' opinion of the team ownership.

in any case, amazing that even with no hockey season, we are still able to poke fun at the greasers

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

Typical NHL MO, but now they are bullying the tax payers instead of the players and most of you are willing to say F off in this case. A slight glimpse into how and why the players are responding to NHL style "negotiations".

Seriously? You are blaming this on the NHL? You really think that Gary Bettman is hiding behind the scenes like Mr. Burns saying; "excellent"? If so you are totally out to lunch as this tactic has been used in the NFL, NBA, etc.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Seriously? You are blaming this on the NHL? You really think that Gary Bettman is hiding behind the scenes like Mr. Burns saying; "excellent"? If so you are totally out to lunch as this tactic has been used in the NFL, NBA, etc.

No I don't, but Katz is on the BOG directing GB in lockout strategy and thus the NHL style of "negotiating"

In this case it's an owner handling his own, but make no mistake, it's consistent with how the collection of owners do their business.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

No I don't, but Katz is on the BOG directing GB in lockout strategy and thus the NHL style of "negotiating"

In this case it's an owner handling his own, but make no mistake, it's consistent with how the collection of owners do their business.

so you have a large body of examples of how say the Calgary owners have done nothing but evil things to the city of Calgary and their players?

I side with the owners in this because I believe their numbers and think the last CBA ended with more loop holes and salary escalation then either side expected, but I can do so without thinking the players are evil knights in a battle to destroy the game of hockey.

it's a negotiation for Pete's sake

I hope you're not this emotional when you're selling a car.

[-TC-]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

How are they dragging their feet? I thought they already said no, and that is the issue?

I thought the issue here is how can Katz pit the public against the government to get them to give him money for this arena?

They've never said no, in fact they said yes and we'll figure out othere $100M years ago. ECC is notorious for dragging their feet...someone already mentioned the 19/23 Ave exchange debacle.

As an Edmontonian, it's very frustrating putting up with a dead duck council, and I know the mayor feels the same way.

All of the 'issues' surround funding and revenue, but it's not simple. There has been many miscommunications between Katzs people and council. Suffice it to say that there is a model that works for everyone and neither side in Edmonton seems to be able to reconcile that.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Seriously? You are blaming this on the NHL? You really think that Gary Bettman is hiding behind the scenes like Mr. Burns saying; "excellent"? If so you are totally out to lunch as this tactic has been used in the NFL, NBA, etc.

Of course it has. Bettman isn't smart enough to come up with ideas on his own. He has to copy what he learned while at the NBA.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I side with the owners in this because I believe their numbers and think the last CBA ended with more loop holes and salary escalation then either side expected, but I can do so without thinking the players are evil knights in a battle to destroy the game of hockey.

I realize that this isn't the topic of the thread but that sums up this whole lockout for me. I understand the players point of view that they feel they gave up a lot last time and feel the owners are always going to try and beat them down but the fact is that the last CBA worked out better for players than owners and I see way too many empty seats in most NHL arenas to sustain these massive 7-14 year contracts desperate GM's and owners are giving out. NHL is a gate driven league and when I see big markets like Denver, Dallas, Anaheim, New Jersey play to half empty buildings I don't see a healthy league going forward under the current CBA.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by seattleflamer

Katz would NOT like the Seattle deal since he would share all the downside risk with Hansen with no government backstop and no tax breaks. And b) he would be the junior partner with probably a less than favorable stake in other arena revenue generating activities than he'd have in Edmonton.

Worse case scenario for Katz is he raises capital by selling some equity in the Oilers to make up the difference in funding if the corporate financing/government subsidy route doesn't work out.

He's got a sweet heart deal in Edmonton and just seeing how much farther people will bend.

This is why Seattle isn't a realistic threat, Katz wouldn't be gaining anything of consequence to offset the risk of moving to an unknown market. If a city steps up and builds you a rink and hands you a bunch of additional rights, like Glendale did, you can live without big hockey related revenues. There's a hell of a lot more money to be made in sweetheart real estate deals and the like around these arenas. Seattle wouldn't offer that, it would offer a junior interest that would be virtually impossible to leverage into something else.

That said, Katz is negotiating with Edmontonians here, so they aren't going to figure this out and it will likely work.

[The Yen Man]

I think it'd be hilarious if the Oiler franchise moved to Seattle and then Phoenix moves to Edmonton. They go from an organization that's won 5 cups to one that's won none. Selanne would be their best franchise player rather than Gretzky. Oiler fans would be livid and would burn Katz at the stake if that ever happened.

[Metro Gnome]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I think it'd be hilarious if the Oiler franchise moved to Seattle and then Phoenix moves to Edmonton. They go from an organization that's won 5 cups to one that's won none. Selanne would be their best franchise player rather than Gretzky. Oiler fans would be livid and would burn Katz at the stake if that ever happened.

On the other hand, Edmonton would get rid of one of the most consistently and laughably inept management teams in the league and replace them with Dave Tippett, Don Maloney, etc.

So that would have to be considered a win.

[Tinordi]

How much risk is Katz taking on in this new arena deal? It looks like highway robbery of the municipality.

[-TC-]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

if he leaves another owner will move to Edmonton and build the rink. Too much money to say no. We're talking about an Alberta city of close to a million with a rich history and passionate fans, passionate wealthy(ish) fans.

If Katz wants to leave, don't let your ass hit the door on the way out, but the hole will be filled.

yeah, no. there's no way Edmonton would get an NHL franchise anytime soon...too many other markets on the table.

if council blows this, they are done.

[Robbob]

Honestly if Katz wants more money from local government then he has to give them something (ie % of revenue generated). If this team can make 15mil a year in Rexal, they potentially can double that in a new arena. At the very least he should be asking for a low interest or no interest loan and pay back the city from the new revenue generated. Amortized over 15 years, it would be a drop in the bucket.