US Ambassador to Lybia, along with 3 others, killed

[flylock shox]

I'm actually surprised they were able to push that ad through with the language used in it.

The way they use the word "savage" suggests a reference to a class of people (i.e. savages) rather than an abstract concept of savagery. Leaving the whole Israel/jihad political element to one side, the wording of the ad actually strikes me as being simply racist. I would have thought there would be limitations on a person's ability to publish racist messages on public property, short of restrictions on hate speech.

Mind you, given the nature of these problems, I might feel differently if it ended "Support secularism. Defeat religion."

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Rerun

So now you want to censor free speech inorder to protect the law abiding public from criminals.

So we should never say anything bad about the mob or biker gangs or gangs in general?... or does this censoring only apply to violence prone religious zealots?

I think there are times where speech that has no purpose but to incite violence should be censored, and I think this is one of them. Now whether I'd think that if it was inciting violence most likely to impact people in Okotoks is a different story, this hits a little close to home so that shapes my view.

[afc wimbledon]

the traditional limit of free speech was shouting 'fire' in a theatre, meaning saying something that is patently intended to have but one outcome, injury and death is not allowed, this is obviously flying pretty close to that.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by valo403

I think there are times where speech that has no purpose but to incite violence should be censored, and I think this is one of them. Now whether I'd think that if it was inciting violence most likely to impact people in Okotoks is a different story, this hits a little close to home so that shapes my view.

So it should be against the law to say anything that could offend someone who is unstable and could very well result in violent behaviour from that person or persons? Thats like saying it should be against the law for women to dress provactively because the end result might be rape.

Seems to me we would be restricting and punishing the wrong person or persons.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Rerun

So it should be against the law to say anything that could offend someone who is unstable and could very well result in violent behaviour from that person or persons? Thats like saying it should be against the law for women to dress provactively because the end result might be rape.

Seems to me we would be restricting and punishing the wrong person or persons.

How you got that from what I said is rather astounding

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by valo403

I think there are times where speech that has no purpose but to incite violence should be censored, and I think this is one of them. Now whether I'd think that if it was inciting violence most likely to impact people in Okotoks is a different story, this hits a little close to home so that shapes my view.

Originally Posted by valo403

How you got that from what I said is rather astounding

Thats exactly what you said....

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by valo403

I think you could make a pretty strong argument that this is inviting imminent violence, which admittedly puts a bit of a twist on the typical hate speech doctrines.

I just see it as an intentional attempt to add fuel to the fire, and the geographic placement as an attempt to provoke another incident in NYC in order to pull America into a holy war.

I am amazed by the posts blaming everyone else. Valo is blaming an add on subways for starting a holy war. A massive Jewish conspiracy!

The violence is due to years of abuse - abuse of their freedoms, rights, education, women and economy.

Things we do here are going to piss people off, there will be no solution as long as the minds of these people are so controlled to hate. There is also little chance of success as the apologists here continue blaming everyone else.

I absolutely think the jihad add is stupid, but it is 1/1000th of what goes on our campuses today to rally people against Israel. But we all know we are basically safe from Israeli terrorists so we allow it to continue.

[Rathji]

I was in university for 7 years and not once did I hear about an anti-Israel protest.

Must have been real big.

[Sol]

I was in here some time ago trying to deter people from making generalizations about very complex situations. I've read a lot of opinions that stereotype Islam in a negative, or even hateful, way.

Now that more of the facts are available, what do we know? We know this attack was planned and executed by a terrorist group. We know that Libyans, even those involved in the initial protests, tried to save the U.S. Ambassador's life during and following the attack. And we know that extremist groups' compounds are being burnt to the ground.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1903846.html

"No deaths were reported in the incident, which came after tens of thousands marched in Benghazi in a rally against armed militias."

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I was in university for 7 years ...

Van?

[Street Pharmacist]

Interesting development in Libya

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/09...y-in-benghazi/

A Libyan Islamist militia was swept out of the eastern city of Benghazi in a popular protest against the armed groups that ran into the early hours of Saturday morning, Reuters witnesses said.

Thousands of Libyans had marched in Benghazi on Friday in support of democracy and against the Islamist militias that Washington blames for the assault on its consulate. Hundreds of Ansar al-Sharia supporters held their own protest.

Friday’s “Rescue Benghazi day” demonstration called for the government to disband armed groups that have refused to give up their weapons since the NATO-backed revolution last year.

“It’s obvious that this protest is against the militias. All of them should join the army or security forces as individuals, not as groups,” student Ahmed Sanallah said. “Without that there will be no prosperity and no success for the new Libya.”

Although the main demands of the marchers did not mention the attack on the U.S. consulate, it seems to have provided a strong impetus for the authorities to rally support behind the country’s weak government.

U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens was well liked, and many Libyans condemned the attack on the consulate despite being angered by the anti-Islamic U.S.-made film that triggered it.

Some protesters’ placards read: “We demand justice for Stevens” and “Libya lost a friend.” Others had mixed views.

“I am out today to defend Benghazi. Killing the ambassador is a completely separate thing,” said 26-year-old Amjad Mohammed Hassan, a network engineer. “I don’t give a damn about the killing of the ambassador because the Americans offended the Prophet. I am just here for Benghazi.”

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by nik-

Van?

Haha, I wish I had that much fun.

Worked full time through 4.5 of those years, so it was slow going.

[FlameOn]

Apparently a federal Pakistan minister has offered $100k bounty for the death of the makers of the "Innocence of Islam".

http://tribune.com.pk/story/440855/f...lmmakers-head/

For a supposedly educated Muslim this seems to be going way WAY too far. Moderate Muslims always claim that it's always the uneducated masses that are causing problems, this goes right against that. Then again this could be just another one of the instances of "hey we are a corrupt government, but look everyone, it's the West's fault for our stealing and oppressing you"

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Apparently a federal Pakistan minister has offered $100k bounty for the death of the makers of the "Innocence of Islam".

http://tribune.com.pk/story/440855/f...lmmakers-head/

For a supposedly educated Muslim this seems to be going way WAY too far. Moderate Muslims always claim that it's always the uneducated masses that are causing problems, this goes right against that. Then again this could be just another one of the instances of "hey we are a corrupt government, but look everyone, it's the West's fault for our stealing and oppressing you"

I think it's the latter. That is textbook right wing pandering.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Apparently a federal Pakistan minister has offered $100k bounty for the death of the makers of the "Innocence of Islam".

http://tribune.com.pk/story/440855/f...lmmakers-head/

For a supposedly educated Muslim this seems to be going way WAY too far. Moderate Muslims always claim that it's always the uneducated masses that are causing problems, this goes right against that. Then again this could be just another one of the instances of "hey we are a corrupt government, but look everyone, it's the West's fault for our stealing and oppressing you"

Many Pakistani government employees are barely more than thugs, and if they aren't thugs themselves, they employ thugs. Landowning is the name of the game in that country (they don't call them feudals in Pakistan for no reason), and if you want something done for you or your family, you go to your patron (your landowner). The result? A number of large landowners in government that act as demagogues because they know what those that live on their land and receive their patronage want to hear.

This is no where as evident as with the ANP. The ANP is the Pathan (Pashtun) nationalist party in Pakistan (and the party this man represents). When you think of guys hiding out in caves waiting to attack American soldiers in Pakistan, you're thinking, basically, of Pathans. They are easily the most anti-American group in Pakistan, and the power base of the Pakistani Taleban.

So this, to me, isn't so much an educated moderate Muslim saying something outlandish, so much as a thuggish hereditary landowner from the Peshawar Valley pandering to his followers and playing on their fundamentally religious, anti-American sentiment.

[Flash Walken]

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I was in university for 7 years and not once did I hear about an anti-Israel protest.

Must have been real big.

YouTube and Wikipedia Israel apartheid week. It might not happen at UofC but it's a huge annual event.

[Calgaryborn]

Here s an interesting article that frames both Bush's and Obama's foriegn policy as failures and suggests a diffrent reason for Muslim hatred which neither of their foriegn policies addresses:

http://townhall.com/columnists/carol...ncy/page/full/

[HPLovecraft]

They've made it to Toronto:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...for-protection

Absolutely ridiculous. I hope there's a counter-protest organized (though I have a feeling it would attract a lot of unsavoury types).

Apparently, freedom of speech and expression only matters to these protesters when it's the thing they like that is insulted. It's perfectly fine when applied to others, but to them? Heaven forbid!

Where are these protesters when South park habitually lampoons Moses, Jesus, and any other number of religious figures? They made an entire episode dedicated to calling Mormonism dumb, ffs! I'm sure some of these people have seen the Simpsons. Where are their protests when Matt Groening makes God imitate Ned Flanders? Oh, right, the whole "freedom of speech doesn't mean disrespecting any Prophet!" farce is just a hypocritical charade to disguise what they really mean: my personal favourite Prophet got insulted -- I really don't care about those other religions, as evidenced by my total inaction whenever they are insulted -- and so I'm going to whine and complain in an attempt to make it seem like I'm not a hypocrtical religious nut job.

What a bunch of idiots. Personally, I think this whole attempt at a "reasoned" attack on freedom of speech is more dangerous than some random schmuck throwing rocks and trying to attack embassies over it.

[Calgaryborn]

Well I think our political leaders need to state very strongly that we cherish free speech and we will not be blackmailed by a segment of a religion into giving that freedom up.

Perhaps Canada needs to communicate more clearly that value of free speech to new immigrants as well. I don't know the makeup of that protest but, I wouldn't be suprised if many are new Canadians.

Having said all that I do support their right to peaceful protest. It's just I don't see what we can do to help them.