New Edmonton Arena Construction will begin in March 2014

[browna]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Because it's Edmonton.

Imagine what that area would be like without the arena.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by seattleflamer

Sure it is a basic need but at risk of rehash, I'd argue in the hierarchy of finite public dollars, funding public housing comes before cultural institution like libraries or museums and certainly before a company worth hundreds of millions of dollars that is fully capable of self financing.

Also I'm assuming these land deals become Section 8 housing which are difficult to manage, have more regulation and less profitable for the owner assuming they have to stay on as landlords to get the full credit.

It is certainly less glamourous to deal with backed up toilets than with these state of the art arenas with Madonna or the Flames as your tenants.

....Then again it is the Oilers we're talking about.

Section 8 is exactly the area I've worked in, an area in which literally billions of dollars were made by a former large corporate client. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, just pointing out that a lot of government programs are utilized by private entities to make a ton of money.

[Artie Fufkin]

Edmonton does not fear progress.

The citizens of Edmonton are willing to chip in for a new arena as long as the concourse floor is made of dirt and parking the horse and cart at the game is free.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

It's not in the core. Like I said, you need an arena to be downtown for it to truly work because really in the end it's not the arena which creates the desired economic activity and spinoff revenue. The arena provides a catalyst which leads to condos and office towers and the cycle goes from there.

At least one study that I could find doing a quick search questions the actual effect urban built stadiums have had on revitalizing surrounding areas. I'd welcome any others.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by browna

Imagine what that area would be like without the arena.

I'd imagine something like the old walled city of Kowloon in Hong Kong...

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

I think because people can closely identify with hockey that they feel the need to speak up in these situations. The fact is, governments give handouts and develop infrastructure to help private businesses all the time.

The 23 ave overpass / 19 ave flyover in Edmonton is a great example of that. The flyover was built solely to benefit businesses in South Edmonton Common. Total cost of the project was $260 million.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmo.../15113981.html

Meanwhile, someone who lives in North Edmonton is paying for this even though they will likely never use it.

A private arena is not infrastructure that benefits the general public like a roadway does no matter how you spin it. This overpass didn't exist before and will serve a purpose to all the citizens directly or indirectly at some point - less congestion, safer roadways etc.

Essentially using your logic; the glenmore trail/macleod trail interchange in Calgary benefits chinook center so its the same as funding a private arena even though its improving numerous other aspects of the cities transportation and quality of life?

A more valid comparison of the two would be more along the lines of the city deciding an existing overpass is a little out of date, tearing it down and constructing a new mega overpass beside it that looks nicer, has a few more bells and whistles but serves the same purpose.

[shermanator]

Looks like Mandel is working with the local soccer team, FC Edmonton, into building a new 10000 seat soccer stadium. My guess is that after their disagreement with Katz on the additional funding, Mandel is looking at other places to invest the money.

Here's some medica clippings from the meetings:

tim adams‏@TimAdamsCBC
1/2"My guess it would be a lot easier," says Mayor Mandel about building a soccer stadium vs #yegdt arena. #cbc #fced #yegarena #nasl

tim adams‏@TimAdamsCBC
2/2 Mandel says city would own soccer stadium & partner w/ private biz + other orders of gov't...versus an arena #cbc #fced #nasl #yegdt

http://the11.ca/2012/09/21/nasl-comm...ota-situation/

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...260/story.html

Interesting developments for sure, a new soccer stadium would probably cost the city much much less, and still provide valuable sporting infrastructure. Of course, hockey is still #1, 2 and 3 in Edmonton so there could be some backlash...

[Locke]

Granted, but the benefit of a soccer stadium is that the City would get the benefit of some of the revenue. Percentage of gate, concessions, etc.

The downside is that the City isnt in the business of running a sports arena, so they'd likely contract that out or make the team responsible for it.

The biggest issue with the Oilers' arena deal is that Katz wants the City to pony up cash but he wants to get all the hockey and non-hockey revenue that the arena generates.

[WilderPegasus]

Katz and his crew seem pretty shady.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4557857/

He's got some nerve thinking that he doesn't have to reveal how many millions he wants from taxpayers in public. The city of Edmonton would do well to tell this clown to take a hike.

[morgin]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

Katz and his crew seem pretty shady.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4557857/

He's got some nerve thinking that he doesn't have to reveal how many millions he wants from taxpayers in public. The city of Edmonton would do well to tell this clown to take a hike.

One doesn't become a successful billionaire by spending money on things when you can convince others to spend it for you.

I think unfortunately he expected counsel to play along better and there not to be a leak of these latest demands. Public support was pretty in favour of this rink for a long time, but it's a fine balance and when you play the "no, I will only continue to talk in private and once you've agreed to be bent over, then we'll take it to the public/counsel" card, it's hard to get the swing back in your favour. It's also difficult for him to play the small market card when the team hasn't made the playoffs in years and is still profitable.

[nik-]

It would sort of be a horrible decision to build a 10000 seat stadium and not just go for MLS size wouldn't it?

At least open that door.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by morgin

One doesn't become a successful billionaire by spending money on things when you can convince others to spend it for you.

No surprise that Katz is looking to stand on the backs of the city taxpayers to promote his own investment.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by nik-

It would sort of be a horrible decision to build a 10000 seat stadium and not just go for MLS size wouldn't it?

At least open that door.

Maybe they feel Commonwealth Stadium would be sufficient for an MLS franchise.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by nik-

It would sort of be a horrible decision to build a 10000 seat stadium and not just go for MLS size wouldn't it?

At least open that door.

Right now, 20000 seats is way to big for FC Edmonton. Getting 5000 in a 20000 seat stadium will suck the atmosphere away, which is a huge part of building the brand.

What the team should do is build a phased stadium, which allows for expansion of up to 20000, but start at 10000. San Antonio is doing their new stadium in this fashion.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by browna

Imagine what that area would be like without the arena.

Edmonton?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold25

It's pretty simple. There's only so much demand for property in Edmonton. Building a rink doesn't create more demand for property (unless people/companies outside of Edmonton start wanting Edmonton property for the first time).

The assumption that Edmonton is not competing with other cities invalidates your argument.

[BlackRedGold25]

Originally Posted by SebC

The assumption that Edmonton is not competing with other cities invalidates your argument.

Are people/companies really going to want to move to Edmonton because they've got a shiny new rink?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold25

Are people/companies really going to want to move to Edmonton because they've got a shiny new rink?

It would be a factor, not only in attracting people/companies but also in retaining them.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by SebC

It would be a factor, not only in attracting people/companies but also in retaining them.

I agree - Edmonton, while more blue collar than Calgary (which isn't a bad thing, you don't hear a lot of the same lame slightly elitist pot shots coming from Edmonton as you read on this board actually), still has a lot of very wealthy people living here. There is a great deal of demand for property in the downtown core which needs to get cleaned up big time. The issue is that there is a massive homeless problem as the natives from the reserves up north funnel down to Edmonton because it is the largest major city close-by. Along with this there are some scuzzy areas in the Boyle Street District. I don't think that there are any simple answers though as no matter what is done it is just going to push the transient population elsewhere.

[dying4acup]

Funny thing is, and Katz knows this, the City of Edmonton will absolutely pay up if he holds a hard line. The trick is to do this without publicly making it known. In the end you want them to pay, you to own the arena and team, and still be able to lose, while all the people in the city love you and think of you as a hero and pay to watch a last place team.