Edmonton teacher suspended for giving zero's

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I just want to say I've done a 180 on my take on the no zero policy. Great job explaining things!

I'll second this. After reading FFSIE's explanation, the policy actually makes a lot of sense to me.

Now if only the newspapers would report the policy as FFSIE did, and not in the fashion they did. I think their reporting of the policy really swayed public opinion into the wrong camp unfortunately.

[FlamesFanStrandedInEDM]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

If you were talking about someone in grade 3, fine. But in this case we are talking about high school students who are about to enter post secondary education or real life jobs. They need to know these rules now.

I also disagree that the primary goal of schools is to have "students learn the curriculum". Of my 12 years of primary/secondary education and 4 years post secondary education I can only remember a fraction of what was taught. What I did learn was how to problem solve and how to find answers on my own, just like we all have to do in the real world.

I doubt you only remembered a fraction of what was learned. You are writing on here aren't you? I would suggest you learned that somewhere. When entering University, you probably had some sort of understanding of the sciences, math, social sciences when entering the program. You learned a lot of school. No one just goes into Bio-Chemistry, Engineering, or Journalism before having the pre-requistes learned in the K-12 School. High School is like I would disagree about the grade that is most important. Regardless of the cheezy bumper sticker you saw stating "Everything I needed to learn was in Kindergarten", High School objectives lead to higher levels of critical thinking, reasoning, arguing that are needed for post-secondary school and real world jobs, stuff not learned in Grade 3.

I'm not disagreeing that students need to be able to meet deadlines and hand in their work. I'm simply stating that Teachers are only supposed to grade what is in the Program of Studies. Giving Penalties that reflect on their grades is wrong. The Penalty makes their grade reflected on behavior instead of their actual knowledge of the content. Grades are supposed to reflect the students learning and nothing else.

Here is the link for the Social Studies 10-2 Program of Studies.
http://education.alberta.ca/media/773705/soc10_2.pdf

The Outcomes and Objectives that students are to be graded on start on Page 27.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanStrandedInEDM

I doubt you only remembered a fraction of what was learned.

Ok, a fraction might be a little overboard but I would still suggest it is in the low percentile. I think school is or should be just as important about learning life leasons, how to behave in society and learning consequences for ones choices and behaviours. Of course, the best place to learn these is at home but school is the next best place.

Giving Penalties that reflect on their grades is wrong. The Penalty makes their grade reflected on behavior instead of their actual knowledge of the content.

But this is how the world works and I think it is important to teach children this. You make valid points in your arguments but I still don't agree with a no zero policy. Maybe if the world worked differently, fine, but it doesn't and we need to prepare our children for what they are going to encounter in the real world.

Thank you for the information you provided.

[FlamesFanStrandedInEDM]

I realize not everyone will agree with it. But you have to take into account that Schools are not "The Real World". Most jobs do not give you a mark on how well you do your job. You dont see "I give you a 8/10 on the Penske File, George", You work in a Pass/Fail environment until you're either promoted or fired. Schools give marks, showing the level of success. This is why you cannot penalize based on tardiness or incomplete work. The Letter Grade/Percent/Level of Acheivement which describes your success as a student is there to grade the student.

The "No Zero Policy" works with the system in place. Unless schools move to a "Pass/Fail" environment (which could easily benefit the slackers and crush the academicly Successful students) these comparisons between the "Real World" and school are not valid.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanStrandedInEDM

I realize not everyone will agree with it. But you have to take into account that Schools are not "The Real World". Most jobs do not give you a mark on how well you do your job. You dont see "I give you a 8/10 on the Penske File, George", You work in a Pass/Fail environment until you're either promoted or fired. Schools give marks, showing the level of success. This is why you cannot penalize based on tardiness or incomplete work. The Letter Grade/Percent/Level of Acheivement which describes your success as a student is there to grade the student.

The "No Zero Policy" works with the system in place. Unless schools move to a "Pass/Fail" environment (which could easily benefit the slackers and crush the academicly Successful students) these comparisons between the "Real World" and school are not valid.

Back in my day, in the early 2000's, when we all had nokia cell phones with green screens and black text, attendance and completion were part of your grade. Time management was part of your ability to earn grades in school. I don't see what the problem is with that?

Also, I'll say it again, we had crappy phones back then, that we thought were cool. These are the two I had in high school...

[FlamesFanStrandedInEDM]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Back in my day, in the early 2000's, when we all had nokia cell phones with green screens and black text, attendance and completion were part of your grade. Time management was part of your ability to earn grades in school. I don't see what the problem is with that?

I guess like your phone....schools can evolve as well. I'm just amazed how many people sound like Grandpa Simpson when it comes to their views on the "No Zero Policy" and the changes in educational assessment.

"It worked for me as a kid, so why should it change?"

I was one of the elite who had the "Motorolla C333" Sleek, Small, White screen with a blue tint and 90minute Battery Life....But it was advanced for its day in mobile gaming with that Motorbike game.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanStrandedInEDM

I guess like your phone....schools can evolve as well. I'm just amazed how many people sound like Grandpa Simpson when it comes to their views on the "No Zero Policy" and the changes in educational assessment.

"It worked for me as a kid, so why should it change?"

I was one of the elite who had the "Motorolla C333" Sleek, Small, White screen with a blue tint and 90minute Battery Life....But it was advanced for its day in mobile gaming with that Motorbike game.

There is a lot of evidence today showing that the way children are treated in school now are NOT preparing them for the future. So just because it is a new approach doesn't make it the best approach.

[Rathji]

What evidence?

[FlamesFanStrandedInEDM]

I'm not saying students don't need to be accountable for their incomplete and late assignments. I'm saying they shouldn't be penalized on their grade cause it makes their grade based on arbitrary outcomes not in the program of studies.

Penalties should be in place and often are. These penalties include exclusion from school sports and extra curriculars if they aren't in good academic standing, keeping them in at lunch until they're at a decent academic standing, having the student on an in-school suspension(aka solitary confinement) until they have caught up. These are all penalties that do not reflect their grade that do get the point across.

Being a teacher I guess I am detatched from the "real world" but don't tell me that the first time a mistake is made you get canned. I've heard both my parents talk about needing extensions or assistance on files in their "real world" jobs.

These students don't get off easy when they hand in an assignment late or incomplete. They just don't have it reflect their grade.

Edit: please excuse my blackberry grammar

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanStrandedInEDM

I'm not saying students don't need to be accountable for their incomplete and late assignments. I'm saying they shouldn't be penalized on their grade cause it makes their grade based on arbitrary outcomes not in the program of studies.

Penalties should be in place and often are. These penalties include exclusion from school sports and extra curriculars if they aren't in good academic standing, keeping them in at lunch until they're at a decent academic standing, having the student on an in-school suspension(aka solitary confinement) until they have caught up. These are all penalties that do not reflect their grade that do get the point across.

Being a teacher I guess I am detatched from the "real world" but don't tell me that the first time a mistake is made you get canned. I've heard both my parents talk about needing extensions or assistance on files in their "real world" jobs.

These students don't get off easy when they hand in an assignment late or incomplete. They just don't have it reflect their grade.

Edit: please excuse my blackberry grammar

Can't play until work is done. Simple.

[Bertuzzied]

Fired! Here is the letter of termination send to the teacher. I guess there is more to the story....

This thread is going to have a 180 degree turn...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/105947367/...ination-letter

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Fired! Here is the letter of termination send to the teacher. I guess there is more to the story....

This thread is going to have a 180 degree turn...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/105947367/...ination-letter

who posted that on line so fast?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

who posted that on line so fast?

The scribd account is edmontonjournal, so that's my guess.

[Rerun]

He must have given it to them. The board would have never done this... privacy and all that..

Why on earth would he do that? I'm flabergasted. This letter puts him in a terrible light.