I agree with you that going apeshat over a cartoon can't ever be justified, and we shouldn't appease extremists. But knowing what the world is like, we also shouldn't be surprised at retaliation....justified or not. You can't reason with crazy.
It is clear though that this producer took a whole other step into hate speech. There wasn't malicious intent with the cartoons as far as I can remember (but I may be wrong, memories are fuzzy). This movie clearly was meant to inflame. What bothers me most is that innocent people are paying the price.
Under what definition is this hate speech? Hate speech in Canada involves actually inciting violence against an identifiable group. This guy ridiculed islam but in no way suggested being violent towards muslims.
Try and put this shoe on the other foot. Does this mean muslim people can't ridicule hardline zionists, because it would offend their faith. Are you actually upset about the ridicule here, or are you worried about the consequences from those who resort to violence.
Maybe you've forgotten but it took a long time before muslims in the Middle East came out and apologized for 9/11. If I recall there was actually dancing in the streets to celebrate the tragedy.
Edit: Found it...
What? How do you know they were celebrating the 9/11 attacks and not something completely different? The attacks occured in the morning which means the Arab world would of heard about it in the evening. Its daytime in this video!
From the moment Americans learned that the 19 aerial assassins of September 11 were Muslim Arabs, they began to wonder: What did Islam have to do with it? The answers were plentiful and quick to come but often contradictory and confusing. Heads of Muslim nations and leaders of Islamic organizations emphasized that Islam was incompatible with terrorism and intolerance. And the spirit of the oft-quoted line from the Koran, "Let there be no compulsion in religion," seemed to reassure most of America's religious, civic, and political leaders. "The face of terror," President Bush confidently announced, "is not the true faith of Islam."
But if all that were true, why did so many inhabitants of the long Muslim "street," stretching from Morocco to Indonesia, appear to be overjoyed by what Osama bin Laden's henchmen had accomplished? For that matter, why were certain Islamic jurists in Pakistan issuing fatwas directing Muslims to fight American infidels if they attacked Afghanistan? And why do firebrand clerics throughout the Islamic world continue to issue equally inflammatory decrees? Most disturbing, some of those same voices of moderation had occasionally expressed their approval of Islamic groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah that engage in terrorism.
What? How do you know they were celebrating the 9/11 attacks and not something completely different? The attacks occured in the morning which means the Arab world would of heard about it in the evening. Its daytime in this video!
Obviously you didn't watch the video. I also remember 9/11 quite vividly. They were celebrating the destruction of the World Trade Center towers.
P.S. The first plane struck the WTC at approx 9 AM Eastern Std Time. At that time it would have been 5 PM in the Middle East.
From the moment Americans learned that the 19 aerial assassins of September 11 were Muslim Arabs, they began to wonder: What did Islam have to do with it? The answers were plentiful and quick to come but often contradictory and confusing. Heads of Muslim nations and leaders of Islamic organizations emphasized that Islam was incompatible with terrorism and intolerance. And the spirit of the oft-quoted line from the Koran, "Let there be no compulsion in religion," seemed to reassure most of America's religious, civic, and political leaders. "The face of terror," President Bush confidently announced, "is not the true faith of Islam."
But if all that were true, why did so many inhabitants of the long Muslim "street," stretching from Morocco to Indonesia, appear to be overjoyed by what Osama bin Laden's henchmen had accomplished? For that matter, why were certain Islamic jurists in Pakistan issuing fatwas directing Muslims to fight American infidels if they attacked Afghanistan? And why do firebrand clerics throughout the Islamic world continue to issue equally inflammatory decrees? Most disturbing, some of those same voices of moderation had occasionally expressed their approval of Islamic groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah that engage in terrorism.
Same reason why some Christians go against the teachings of Jesus, people are stupid and most of us are smart enough to know better than to paint all Christians with the same brush
There is a very large difference between, on the one hand, believing in some sort of guilt by association due to belonging to the same religion, and, on the other hand, believing religious leaders should condemn the actions of those who perpetrated the crime. I agree that religious leaders need to condemn the actions of these people. However, I do not, for a single moment, believe people completely unrelated to the actions should apologize simply because they happen to belong to the same religion. The latter was what I thought Rerun was asking for, but he clarified that he was not.
Agreed and understood, but I was taking that ball and running with it in a slightly different direction.
There is a very large difference between, on the one hand, believing in some sort of guilt by association due to belonging to the same religion, and, on the other hand, believing religious leaders should condemn the actions of those who perpetrated the crime. I agree that religious leaders need to condemn the actions of these people. However, I do not, for a single moment, believe people completely unrelated to the actions should apologize simply because they happen to belong to the same religion. The latter was what I thought Rerun was asking for, but he clarified that he was not.
I disagree. As the violence was religiously motivated, I believe it is precisely those who are leaders within the religion who need to live up to their position and take the lead and demonstrate to those who are perpetrating the violence the proper way to act.
As people have pointed out, any person who'd looked at the recent history of Islam could have predicted a huge, violent response to the film. That means there is something wrong inside the broader Islamic community and it is up to Islamic leaders and moderate muslims to place pressure on their brethren to change.
Muslim protesters in Egypt stormed the American embassy in Cairo, replacing the American flag with a black flag honoring Islam on the 11th anniversary of the 9-11 attacks by Muslim terrorists.
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The protesters, almost 3,000 in number, stormed the embassy on the anniversary of the September 11th attacks. On September 11, 2001, almost 3,000 people died in the attacks on the World Trade Center, Pentagon, and aboard Flight 93 in Pennsylvania when Muslim terrorists hijacked airplanes and flew them into their targets.
Muslim rioters, protesting a movie in Cairo, light flares amid smoke while storming the U.S. Embassy on the anniversary of the September 11th attacks against the World Trade Center and Pentagon.
The American flag was taken down, ripped apart and burned as graffiti was sprayed on the compound's walls. The flag was replaced with a black banner, carrying insignia related to Islam and to al-Qaida. Screams and smoke from flares filled the area outside the embassy well into the night.
Spotlight Is on Libya, but Bigger Challenge for White House May Lie in Egypt
HELENE COOPER and MARK LANDLER
Published: September 12, 2012
WASHINGTON — For all the harrowing images of the deadly attack on the American mission in Benghazi, the Obama administration is grappling with the possibility that its far bigger long-term problem lies in Egypt, not Libya.
Hours before the attacks in Benghazi on Tuesday, the American Embassy in Cairo came under siege from protesters. While the violence there did not result in any American deaths, the tepid response from the Egyptian government to the assault gave officials in Washington — already troubled by the direction of President Mohamed Morsi’s new Islamist government — further cause for concern.
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Mr. Morsi issued only a mild rebuke of the rioters — and on Facebook — while his movement, the Muslim Brotherhood, has called for a second day of protests against the lurid anti-Muslim video that set off the riots. And though the Egyptian police coordinated with American officials, Mr. Morsi waited 24 hours before issuing his statement against the militants who stormed the embassy; Libyan authorities issued immediate, unequivocal statements of regret for the bloodshed in Benghazi.
"The presidency condemns in the strongest terms the attempt of a group to insult the place of the Messenger, the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) and condemns the people who have produced this radical work," the president said in a statement posted on his Facebook page. "The Egyptian people, both Muslims and Christians, refuse such insults on sanctities."
When leaders of countries take an invisible man in the sky this seriously no good is going to come of it. There is no end in sight.
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Remember that in a city like Cairo that has at least half, or more of the population of Canada you are bound to get a higher number of crazies in one place.
Say what? Population of Cairo is 7 million. Regardless, not sure why you would be worried living in a more populous city. They tend to be more multicultural, and therefore more tolerant.
Unless you're a woman of course. In which case you're not really a person according to them.
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Anyway, I think everyone is in the wrong here (typical of this part of the world). Don't judge the whole by the actions of the few and don't accept people who willingly take actions that they know will incite violence. There are better ways to attempt to prove your point and the laws that protect him in America (which maybe they shouldn't) don't protect the people living outside of the states.
Everyone is in the wrong? One group just murdered innocent people in the name of blasphemy. The other made a youtube movie.
The two do not in any way equate.
Freedom of expression (including that which offends) is important, which is why enlightened societies around the world have laws protecting it.
If a religion is so easily incited to violence through cartoons and youtube videos, maybe there needs to be an acknowledgement there is something wrong with it. We aren't talking about 50 guys burning crosses because they are a bunch of stupid rednecks. We're talking protests in the thousands because they honestly believe the Koran is the word of God, and you shouldn't show a picture of their idol.
That's pretty messed up.
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It's pretty simple in my eyes, religious studies is the only form of education for many of these people. They are dirt poor and living in another time, that we have difficulty comprehending when we have access to unlimited information and contradictory opinions. Add in some charismatic firebrand clerics who are pushing a largely political agenda and you find groups of people who will act on it. Honestly I think this is the natural progression of people who the world has largely left behind for the last 70 years. As they get more exposure to the outside world, they will become desensitizes as we have to things that we consider completely offensive. The top CNN comment on yesterdays Egyptian riot article was from a fellow living in Egypt who said the vast majority of people mock these overly sensitive zealots and that they don't reflect the overall public opinion.
"The presidency condemns in the strongest terms the attempt of a group to insult the place of the Messenger, the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) and condemns the people who have produced this radical work," the president said in a statement posted on his Facebook page. "The Egyptian people, both Muslims and Christians, refuse such insults on sanctities."
To that, I say "#### your 'sanctities'." If your sanctities cannot survive criticism or 'insults', then they're pretty weak to begin with.
reason number 19238973219864987 why religion sucks.
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Protests spread to Yemen, US Embassy in Yemen stormed
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Hundreds of Yemeni demonstrators stormed the U.S. embassy in Sanaa on Thursday in protest at a film they consider blasphemous to Islam, and security guards tried to hold them off by firing into the air.
I disagree. As the violence was religiously motivated, I believe it is precisely those who are leaders within the religion who need to live up to their position and take the lead and demonstrate to those who are perpetrating the violence the proper way to act.
As people have pointed out, any person who'd looked at the recent history of Islam could have predicted a huge, violent response to the film. That means there is something wrong inside the broader Islamic community and it is up to Islamic leaders and moderate muslims to place pressure on their brethren to change.
I'm not sure you understand what I said.
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"The Last Temptation of Christ", hugely controversial depiction of Jesus, multimillion dollar Hollywood film, no riots from Christians....
"The Passion of the Christ", hugely controversial for its perceived anti-semitism, multimillion dollar Hollywood film, no riots from Jews...
All anti-Islam films have been poorly produced pieces of crap and yet they all lose their collective isht every single time this happens. Its simply ingrained in the religion, that when someone disagrees or is even slightly intolerant of Islam, they need to be killed. How exactly you defeat that can of mentality I really don't know, which is why I think its pointless to even try.
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