RCMP college in Fort MacLeod was a great idea until Wildrose won the riding

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by SebC

Sure, but where were the Wildrose when it first got the green light. I agree the PCs goofed there but there is no indication the Wildrose would've done better. Possibly, they would have been worse (not cancelling wasteful spending).

It first got the green light 6 years ago. The wild rose were founded 4 years ago. It would have been tough for them to object at the time.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Do you at least admit that IF the riding had gone PC, the chances of them kiboshing a project they had already promised and sunk millions of dollars into, would be less than...well....zero?

I'm not defending why the PC's did this, or how it came about. I do think that this was the right decision though. To me its a gray area in that sense; they might not have arrived there in the best way, but one way or another they came to the right decision.

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

My position?

I think braid had it bang on in the editorial. It's a bit ridiculous to Claim fiscal prudence on a project they had in the budget, promised for years and even went so far to sign contracts two months ago. It has much more to do with politics.

So can we assume that your position is that because the Wildrose never said they would cut this, that you would rather see this built? Pretty clearly the Wildrose didn't claim they would cut this as they did with the Art Museum, so it wasn't on the chopping block. Right now it would likely be full speed ahead with this project?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

It first got the green light 6 years ago. The wild rose were founded 4 years ago. It would have been tough for them to object at the time.

Sure, but in the past four years have they ever objected? They've objected to a lot of other things, so its not like they didn't have the chance!

I don't recall their predecessors objecting either, but I could be wrong on that?

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm not defending why the PC's did this, or how it came about. I do think that this was the right decision though. To me its a gray area in that sense; they might not have arrived there in the best way, but one way or another they came to the right decision.



So can we assume that your position is that because the Wildrose never said they would cut this, that you would rather see this built? Pretty clearly the Wildrose didn't claim they would cut this as they did with the Art Museum, so it wasn't on the chopping block. Right now it would likely be full speed ahead with this project?

Don't know as I don't speak for the party.

Aside from raising taxes, what would your liberals have done?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Don't know as I don't speak for the party.

Aside from raising taxes, what would your liberals have done?

I also find it curious that although you agree with everything Braid said and say he hit the nail right on the head that you conveniently miss the end of his article. Its the part where he suggests that this decision could be foreshadowing for a revenue problem (which now we know to be the case). In otherwords the decision to cut somewhere had to be made due to less than anticipated revenue.

[Knalus]

No one here has brought up that Redford was Justice minister? It's not like NOW she has the position to shut it down, she's been responsible for how this played out for years and years.

It was a bad idea to go ahead with this project in the first place.
It was a worse idea to do it in Ft. Macleod because of political reasons.
It was a bad idea to keep touting the project if it was questionable.
It was a worse idea to string the town along.
And it was even worse to do this after awarding contracts.

Cause now, the results of doing a possibly good thing, shutting down an unnecessary project, have been made markedly worse. Incompetence. Just what I have come to expect from this incarnation of this party.

[Dion]

- In 1999, a justice summit of law enforcement officials recommends that a singlesite police training facility is needed in Alberta.

- In 2002, an MLA subcommittee is created to look into the need for such a facility.

- In 2004, the committee recommends that such a facility be built.

- In May 2005, then Solicitor General Harvey Cenaiko asked communities to bid on the training centre.

- In August 2006, the province announces that Fort Macleod has been chosen from a field of 33.

- In February 20--, then premier Ed Stelmach flies into Fort Macleod and announces that the training centre has been budgeted for.

- On Jan. 25, Mayor Patience is called by current Solicitor General Jonathan Denis, telling him that the province has decided to move forward with the project. He says the land transfer needs to be completed so the project start.

- In February, Fort Macleod transfers 320 acres of municipal land to the province. Contracts to provide services to the site are signed and the town of just 3,000 souls commits $3.87 million to build the infrastructure to service the college.

- In March, three contractors who had been shortlisted earlier are contacted to provide design proposals to be submitted by May.

- April 23, Tory Agriculture minister and area MLA Evan Berger loses his seat to the Wildrose in the provincial election.

- On July 3, the province announces that Bird DesignBuild Construction has won the construction contract. Denis says: "It makes sense to have a training facility where you can take police recruits out of a familiar environment and train them on the ground level of what it takes to be a police officer."

- On July 4, the town is contacted in writing by an Alberta Infrastructure Engineer to proceed and award "the contract for the off-site water and sewer work."

- Aug. -, Stantec Architecture releases design plans for the centre.
- Aug. 29, the Tories cancel the police college.

- August 30, the province announces the deficit is much higher than expected.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opini...742/story.html

[flamesfever]

I was just down in the Fort McLeod area the other day and spoke with a few of the local people. It's not only the town, business people, and contractors who are suffering, but also the ordinary citizens who have suddenly watched their house prices drop by half.

Talks of law suits is certainly in the air, and I think there is going to be a substantial amount paid by the government to square things with the Community. Perhaps there could be some other facility considered...DNA lab, etc.

I think it's important to find ways to keep our smaller centres economically viable.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I was just down in the Fort McLeod area the other day and spoke with a few of the local people. It's not only the town, business people, and contractors who are suffering, but also the ordinary citizens who have suddenly watched their house prices drop by half.

Talks of law suits is certainly in the air, and I think there is going to be a substantial amount paid by the government to square things with the Community. Perhaps there could be some other facility considered...DNA lab, etc.

I think it's important to find ways to keep our smaller centres economically viable.

Why does this whole thing feel like our gov't is a bunch of rich people playing high-school with our tax dollars?

[Ducay]

If anyone honestly watches the Chief Hanson's press release and still thinks this is about politics, you're a conspiracy theorist nutjob.

It was a plan developed under another PC gov't when we were looking at moving to a Prov. force, times are tighter and that $100+M is now better spend addressing other more urgent needs in policing, rather than spending on training facilities that already exist.

Sure it was cut a bit far down the process, but they're sunk costs and as of Aug 30, the best use of taxpayers money was to cancel it and use those funds elsewhere.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I was just down in the Fort McLeod area the other day and spoke with a few of the local people. It's not only the town, business people, and contractors who are suffering, but also the ordinary citizens who have suddenly watched their house prices drop by half.

Seriously?

Have you got any evidence to support this ridiculous claim?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Seriously?

Have you got any evidence to support this ridiculous claim?

Have you ever been to Fort Macleod? There's basicly nothing there and that project would have done wonders for the towns economy. Jobs would have been created and people would have moved there. It's not surprising to hear townsfolk talking of plummeting real estate prices.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Ducay

If anyone honestly watches the Chief Hanson's press release and still thinks this is about politics, you're a conspiracy theorist nutjob.

It was a plan developed under another PC gov't when we were looking at moving to a Prov. force, times are tighter and that $100+M is now better spend addressing other more urgent needs in policing, rather than spending on training facilities that already exist.

Sure it was cut a bit far down the process, but they're sunk costs and as of Aug 30, the best use of taxpayers money was to cancel it and use those funds elsewhere.

What about the all the money that was sunk into the project? That money could have been used elsewhere and now it's gone and wasted because the PC's never did thier homework by asking the police if they would use the facility.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Dion

Have you ever been to Fort Macleod? There's basicly nothing there and that project would have done wonders for the towns economy. Jobs would have been created and people would have moved there. It's not surprising to hear townsfolk talking of plummeting real estate prices.

So in other words, there's no actual evidence to support the claim.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Dion

What about the all the money that was sunk into the project? That money could have been used elsewhere and now it's gone and wasted because the PC's never did thier homework by asking the police if they would use the facility.

Sunk cost is a new term to you?

You don't just keep throwing money at a project just because you've started it. Hindsight is 20/20, but given how much money could have been saved, the best decision right now was to cut it, regardless of how much had been spent to date.

edit: But yes, the best would have been to not start it at all, but at the time the PCs made the best decision possible given the direction that Prov. policing was heading.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Dion

What about the all the money that was sunk into the project? That money could have been used elsewhere and now it's gone and wasted because the PC's never did thier homework by asking the police if they would use the facility.

Of course they screwed up and wasted a bunch of money. Be mad at them for that, not for stopping the flow of money into a facility that won't be properly utilized.

[BlackArcher101]

oops, double post

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Dion

Have you ever been to Fort Macleod? There's basicly nothing there and that project would have done wonders for the towns economy. Jobs would have been created and people would have moved there. It's not surprising to hear townsfolk talking of plummeting real estate prices.

Looking at an affordable housing report for Fort Macleod (from 2010), prices appear to have risen ~50% since 2006. But what didn't in this province? They just caught up just like every other small town did. I doubt the reason for the increase even had to do anything with the college (talk about speculation if so, as the increases were well before the actual project award was given).

To say prices have been slashed only days after the announcement is absurd. Has anything actually sold? I think the yearly number of sales per year is something like 30 in Fort Macleod. I don't know on what basis someone can say their house is now worth half.

[puckluck2]

Had to thank both posts.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Of course they screwed up and wasted a bunch of money. Be mad at them for that, not for stopping the flow of money into a facility that won't be properly utilized.

I mad at them for wasting money and NOT the ending of the project.