Today's mass shooting brought to you live from New York City

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Aleks

Not it sure is good that only trained officers can carry guns eh? Keep in mind that I put more rounds through my pistols in one session then 95% of officers will in 2-3 years of their mandatory 'training'...It's evidenced in scenarios like this. Condolences to all the victims and families. 1 CCW permit holder could have ended it immediately

Late edit: Jim Carrey is a wad....this has nothing to do with the second amendment

Put in mind that police officers will go through more danger and stress in a day than you will in 20-30 years and they still screwed it up.

If I need some holes in a sheet of paper I will call one of your CCW buddies.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by Aleks

Not it sure is good that only trained officers can carry guns eh? Keep in mind that I put more rounds through my pistols in one session then 95% of officers will in 2-3 years of their mandatory 'training'...It's evidenced in scenarios like this. Condolences to all the victims and families. 1 CCW permit holder could have ended it immediately

Late edit: Jim Carrey is a wad....this has nothing to do with the second amendment

This is exactly what's wrong with the pro-gun culture - they all think they're John Wayne and can do a better job than the police. Hilarious.

[MrMastodonFarm]

NSFW!

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

NSFW!

Totally OT, but it always makes me laugh when I see the weapons from star wars, that is an SMG, the first sub-machine gun I was issued by the army.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

umm, bull####. that's EXACTLY what police are trained to do. they go through years of ongoing firearms training that specifically instruct them how to control their emotions and make sure they hit the bad guy and not an innocent bystander. either these cops are at fault for forgetting that training and shooting their gun like an idiot gang member, or the department is at fault for not providing the proper training to these idiots. i hope every one of those injured victims sues the city for all they can get

No amount of training can fully prepare a person for the real thing, people screw up under the intense stress of a life or death situation all the time. Cops,Soldiers,Fireman...you name it.

That said,your right,there will be lawsuits.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

Put in mind that police officers will go through more danger and stress in a day than you will in 20-30 years and they still screwed it up.

If I need some holes in a sheet of paper I will call one of your CCW buddies.

Oh? So you know the stresses of my daily job? Perhaps you can join me one day.....Not sure why the personal attacks have started in already

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

This is exactly what's wrong with the pro-gun culture - they all think they're John Wayne and can do a better job than the police. Hilarious.

Because believe it or not, alot of officers are just not gun people, and as with any skill it cannot be argued that more practice will be worse than a guy who has to put 50 rounds down range a year in an easy qualification(I have done it so I know). It's simple really, and has nothing to do with John Wayne. Everybody thinks that just because someone is a cop they have mythical firearms abilities, when really they're just another person with a tool for their job

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Aleks

Because believe it or not, alot of officers are just not gun people, and as with any skill it cannot be argued that more practice will be worse than a guy who has to put 50 rounds down range a year in an easy qualification(I have done it so I know). It's simple really, and has nothing to do with John Wayne. Everybody thinks that just because someone is a cop they have mythical firearms abilities, when really they're just another person with a tool for their job

My question for you is how many times have you fired your weapon while under pressure or stress? I can tell you from experience, that when the real bullets start to fly it's a different story, and those that thought they would rise to the occasion often don't.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

My question for you is how many times have you fired your weapon while under pressure or stress? I can tell you from experience, that when the real bullets start to fly it's a different story, and those that thought they would rise to the occasion often don't.

There are plenty who do though. Your generalizing to much. I can bring up examples of both amazing police shooters, and amazing armed citizens who came to the aid of police or the general public. We both know examples can go both ways, you're choosing to deny the other half of the statistics in some sort of anti gun fueled blinders. Again, I deal with plenty of work life and death stress, and I have had to act in an effort to preserve my own life, and every day deal with everyone else's. I'm just unsure how you feel you can judge everyone who carries a firearm on their abilities based on whether they are a badged cop or not, because that title has little to do with an individual's skill or volition.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Aleks

There are plenty who do though. Your generalizing to much. I can bring up examples of both amazing police shooters, and amazing armed citizens who came to the aid of police or the general public. We both know examples can go both ways, you're choosing to deny the other half of the statistics in some sort of anti gun fueled blinders. Again, I deal with plenty of work life and death stress, and I have had to act in an effort to preserve my own life, and every day deal with everyone else's. I'm just unsure how you feel you can judge everyone who carries a firearm on their abilities based on whether they are a badged cop or not, because that title has little to do with an individual's skill or volition.

First off you were the one generalizing:

Keep in mind that I put more rounds through my pistols in one session then 95% of officers will in 2-3 years of their mandatory 'training'...

Be clear my responses and questions are not personal attacks on you.

I am sorry to hear that you have had to:

Again, I deal with plenty of work life and death stress, and I have had to act in an effort to preserve my own life

Having been in the same situation it is not a good feeling, other than afterwards when you have successfully acted.

I would suggest to you that you are in the minority of "shooters" when it comes to experience. The problem is I suspect many believe they can handle themselves in a stressful env't, and they can't.

Once again, I ask how often you have had to fire your weapon in a stressful or pressure env't.

[sun]

Originally Posted by Aleks

Not it sure is good that only trained officers can carry guns eh? Keep in mind that I put more rounds through my pistols in one session then 95% of officers will in 2-3 years of their mandatory 'training'...It's evidenced in scenarios like this. Condolences to all the victims and families. 1 CCW permit holder could have ended it immediately

Late edit: Jim Carrey is a wad....this has nothing to do with the second amendment

This ####ing guy again...

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by sun

This ####ing guy again...

Hi!

[jayswin]

..and another thread becomes all about this god damn aleks guy. We get it, guns are awesome and you're awesome with guns, and anytime something goes wrong with guns, we musn't blame the poor guns, but the people, etc.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Aleks

There are plenty who do though. Your generalizing to much. I can bring up examples of both amazing police shooters, and amazing armed citizens who came to the aid of police or the general public. We both know examples can go both ways, you're choosing to deny the other half of the statistics in some sort of anti gun fueled blinders. Again, I deal with plenty of work life and death stress, and I have had to act in an effort to preserve my own life, and every day deal with everyone else's. I'm just unsure how you feel you can judge everyone who carries a firearm on their abilities based on whether they are a badged cop or not, because that title has little to do with an individual's skill or volition.

What exactly do you do that makes this an accurate statement? There are very few occupations where that is the case.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

First off you were the one generalizing:




Be clear my responses and questions are not personal attacks on you.

I am sorry to hear that you have had to:



Having been in the same situation it is not a good feeling, other than afterwards when you have successfully acted.

I would suggest to you that you are in the minority of "shooters" when it comes to experience. The problem is I suspect many believe they can handle themselves in a stressful env't, and they can't.

Once again, I ask how often you have had to fire your weapon in a stressful or pressure env't.

You are right, I did just throw a random number out there, for that I was wrong....was typing on my cell phone while taking a crunch so my limited resources led to poor judgement.

And I've fired a firearm (not mine, a service pistol..mine shoots nicer ) in the same "stress" simulator on the range as the officers.....You won't see my name in the paper any time soon, I shoot for fun and IDPA now (look it up, we aren't talking stand and shoot.....). Stress is relative, I'm accustomed to it, 14 years in my line of work and its no longer noticeable

Anyhow, all I'm looking for is a little understanding, and really would like to help educate anyone who is uncomfortable or who has any questions on the subject of firearms, ownership, and training.....I promise I'm really a nice guy

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by valo403

What exactly do you do that makes this an accurate statement? There are very few occupations where that is the case.

I'm not here to advertise my occupation. I can assure you I've saved some, I've lost some, I've broken even on many more.....Considering the variables, I'm happy with that

If you'd like to sleuth it up a little, it was named one of the top 10 most dangerous occupations (in the US, unfortunately there is no real grading like that in Canada).....

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Aleks

You are right, I did just throw a random number out there, for that I was wrong....was typing on my cell phone while taking a crunch so my limited resources led to poor judgement.

And I've fired a firearm (not mine, a service pistol..mine shoots nicer ) in the same "stress" simulator on the range as the officers.....You won't see my name in the paper any time soon, I shoot for fun and IDPA now (look it up, we aren't talking stand and shoot.....). Stress is relative, I'm accustomed to it, 14 years in my line of work and its no longer noticeable

Anyhow, all I'm looking for is a little understanding, and really would like to help educate anyone who is uncomfortable or who has any questions on the subject of firearms, ownership, and training.....I promise I'm really a nice guy

Again, not personal attacks, but you have never shot in a "real" situation. Training tries to make the situation the same, but often it doesn't messure up. I never found Jungles Lanes to be that life like, though they do add in developing snap shooting skills.

I would be happy to have an open, civil discussion about firearms. Might I suggest you make new thread.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by flameswin

..and another thread becomes all about this god damn aleks guy. We get it, guns are awesome and you're awesome with guns, and anytime something goes wrong with guns, we musn't blame the poor guns, but the people, etc.

Is this not a blame the people situation? Oh you're right...I guess if NOBODY had guns (police included) nobody would have been hurt....good point

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Aleks

I'm not here to advertise my occupation. I can assure you I've saved some, I've lost some, I've broken even on many more.....Considering the variables, I'm happy with that

If you'd like to sleuth it up a little, it was named one of the top 10 most dangerous occupations (in the US, unfortunately there is no real grading like that in Canada).....

A dangerous occupation and operating in a situation where somebody walks up to you and pulls a gun aren't the same thing. Being a crab fisherman doesn't qualify you to say you'd be able to operate in a particular manner if placed in the shoes of those officers.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Aleks

I'm not here to advertise my occupation. I can assure you I've saved some, I've lost some, I've broken even on many more.....Considering the variables, I'm happy with that

If you'd like to sleuth it up a little, it was named one of the top 10 most dangerous occupations (in the US, unfortunately there is no real grading like that in Canada).....

I looked up several lists (they're all mostly the same) - and the only job that might involve firing a weapon while someone is shooting at you is police officer. We've already established you aren't that.

I don't see how being a fisherman or a logger would make you an expert in life/death situations involving someone pointing a firearm at your head.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/...obs/index.html

I think you're talking out of your ass.