Twelve Step Programs

[HELPNEEDED]

pron?

[jamoro]

I use to smoke weed almost everyday for a year and a half. I wanted to stop, and What I did is I said I am not a drug addict! I took all my weed paraphernalia and threw it out in the trash can and I never looked back.

I think you need to take responsibly for you actions... If you want to stop just do it! find things to do that will take your mind off the addiction. Mine was drinking coffee and playing video games. I have been clean now for 3 months

[afc wimbledon]

having spent many years working with addiction issues with my foster kids and their families I generally tend to translate, 'I'm having difficulty with steps 1 through 3' into 'I'm having difficulty admitting I'm an addict and would really like to find a program that can let me continue with my substance use without the negative consequences'

[Thor]

Originally Posted by jamoro

I use to smoke weed almost everyday for a year and a half. I wanted to stop, and What I did is I said I am not a drug addict! I took all my weed paraphernalia and threw it out in the trash can and I never looked back.

I think you need to take responsibly for you actions... If you want to stop just do it! find things to do that will take your mind off the addiction. Mine was drinking coffee and playing video games. I have been clean now for 3 months

Good for you, sincerely, but marijuana isn't exactly known for addictions. It can become psychologically addictive, but that is nothing like chemical addictions in which your body literally gets sick without the drug and will fight you tooth and nail to get you to continue your addiction.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Thor

Good for you, sincerely, but marijuana isn't exactly known for addictions. It can become psychologically addictive, but that is nothing like chemical addictions in which your body literally gets sick without the drug and will fight you tooth and nail to get you to continue your addiction.

I think the psychological addiction is the worst, heroin withdrawl is basically a week or two of the flu, lousy for sure but not in the least unbearable.

[Superfraggle]

Originally Posted by Thor

Good for you, sincerely, but marijuana isn't exactly known for addictions. It can become psychologically addictive, but that is nothing like chemical addictions in which your body literally gets sick without the drug and will fight you tooth and nail to get you to continue your addiction.

Marijuana can absolutely be addictive and ruin lives just as thoroughly as chemical addictions can. Addiction is far more than detox symptoms. People dismiss marijuana because a lot of people are able to use it without negatively impacting their lives, and it is normalized. I've worked with people who this is not the case for, however, and it can be absolutely ruinous.

One thing I've noticed about addicts (not saying you are one) is that they have a tendency to want to believe they are alone in the depth of their problem and noone else has been where they are. Crack addicts, alcoholics, oxycontin, etc. all think theirs is the worst problem for various reasons.

[Devils'Advocate]

Again, I want to thank those that dropped me a PM. There have been so many there is no way that I can reply to them all right now, but rest assured that I appreciated all of them.

I did go to my "first" meeting last night. Like I said, I had gone before and didn't feel I fit in, but I gave it another go. I have mixed feelings about the experience.

First, I spoke to the leader regarding my reservations regarding the religious overtones. She gave me a pamphlet called "What if I don't believe in God" which was along these lines from the group's website:

You do not have to believe in God to begin this journey. All you have to understand is that there are forces beyond yourself that are more powerful than you. Your addiction to drugs and, or, alcohol brought you to your knees. It turned out to be much more powerful than you. The elements of nature, wind, water, earth and fire are all potentially more powerful than you when provoked. Two people are more powerful than one and a group of people is a powerful force. The point is all you need to acknowledge is that a power greater than yourself exists. You already know that the power behind the disease of addiction is not loving, kind or compassionate. It is a powerful force that wants you dead. When we begin our recovery we need to begin the process of switching teams. One team leads to death and the other to life. You have already chosen life by staying clean and sober one day at a time. The next step is to enlist the powerful force of a loving, kind and compassionate "Higher Power". For the die-hard atheist or agnostic, and our society has many, it is suggested that you make a group of recovering addicts your higher power. Speak openly with them about your disbelief. Rely on their experience strength and hope. Follow their suggestions. This is a simple, spiritual, non-religious program designed especially for you.

The downside was that I so wanted to share, let loose, talk about my problems and feelings and issues that have consumed me. But everyone else in the room was at that same place, so before we got to me, we were told that we were out of time for the evening. It was definitely good to hear others with similar issues and experiences and lose that feeling of loneliness that Superfraggle just referred to. And I have lots of literature to read to get me started. I think I might do what others in my situation have done and start blogging about where I am at. Even if I am the only one that reads it, journalling your thoughts and experiences is often as cathartic as saying them out loud. And someone pointed out to me in the past that the journals are there to refer back to so you can see what you did on the good days and what happened on the bad to find out what truly makes you happy. And most times it is the days that you eschewed your particular weakness rather than gave in.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Again, I want to thank those that dropped me a PM. There have been so many there is no way that I can reply to them all right now, but rest assured that I appreciated all of them.

I did go to my "first" meeting last night. Like I said, I had gone before and didn't feel I fit in, but I gave it another go. I have mixed feelings about the experience.

First, I spoke to the leader regarding my reservations regarding the religious overtones. She gave me a pamphlet called "What if I don't believe in God" which was along these lines from the group's website:


The downside was that I so wanted to share, let loose, talk about my problems and feelings and issues that have consumed me. But everyone else in the room was at that same place, so before we got to me, we were told that we were out of time for the evening. It was definitely good to hear others with similar issues and experiences and lose that feeling of loneliness that Superfraggle just referred to. And I have lots of literature to read to get me started. I think I might do what others in my situation have done and start blogging about where I am at. Even if I am the only one that reads it, journalling your thoughts and experiences is often as cathartic as saying them out loud. And someone pointed out to me in the past that the journals are there to refer back to so you can see what you did on the good days and what happened on the bad to find out what truly makes you happy. And most times it is the days that you eschewed your particular weakness rather than gave in.

Dont make the mistake of thinking all groups are the same, I advise my kids to try at least 8 or 9 groups and find one that feels comfortable to them, there are huge differences with AA and NA as well, NA tend (here) to be younger larger meetings with a looser feel, AA tend to be smaller older and more serious, conversely I find because of that the AA groups tend to be more effective where as the NA groups can be distracting due to the sheer size of them, also my kids can find someone to screw up with at NA just as easily as finding support.
Also always try to get to your first meetings early and introduce yourself to the meetings organisers, how they are will tell you alot about a group.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by jamoro

I use to smoke weed almost everyday for a year and a half. I wanted to stop, and What I did is I said I am not a drug addict! I took all my weed paraphernalia and threw it out in the trash can and I never looked back.

I think you need to take responsibly for you actions... If you want to stop just do it! find things to do that will take your mind off the addiction. Mine was drinking coffee and playing video games. I have been clean now for 3 months

Good for you for finding more socially accepted addictions. Bravo, I say, good chap.

[Devils'Advocate]

Sorry to bump the thread. So it has been almost a year since I started in this program. And I haven't partaken in my particular addiction for a few months now. I went to my first retreat this weekend. I still feel like an outsider on most of these things.

The leader tells us that we must pray every day. Start the day with prayer to our Higher Power. If you don't pray each day, you won't successfully beat your addiction.

And the prayers we should read are:
The Third Step Prayer

God, I offer myself to Thee-
To build with me
and to do with me as Thou wilt.
Relieve me of the bondage of self,
that I may better do Thy will.
Take away my difficulties,
that victory over them may bear witness
to those I would help of Thy Power,
Thy Love, and Thy Way of life.
May I do Thy will always!

As an atheist, there is nobody to surrender to, nobody to tell me what to do, nobody to ask to take away my troubles so that I can do his bidding.

The other one was the 7th Step Prayer:

My Creator,
I am now willing that You should have all of me,
good and bad.
I pray that You now remove from me
every single defect of character which stands in the way
of my usefulness to You and my fellows.
Grant me strength, as I go out from here,
to do Your bidding.

Last night we were all asked to stand up in a two concentric circles, inside circle facing out, outside circle facing in. The inside circle rotated one space each turn. With each rotation, we were asked to say the following prayer:
"May the love of God embrace you, may His peace rest in your soul, may His will show you the light, for now and forevermore."
I can tell you, I really felt uncomfortable with this exercise.

As you know, we are all to make amends to the people we have wronged. Well, the retreat leader said that she has a particularly difficult one to do and she had left it to last because she knew that even approaching this person might cause fireworks. But she said that God told her on one particular day that it was time to step up and go to this persons house and make amends. So she did. And as it turned out the person she had wronged had just been to a similar retreat the day before where they were asked to forgive those that had injured them in some way. Had she arrived a week before, the person admitted she would have thrown the retreat leader out of the house, but given the timing she was willing to let bygones be bygones. "And this is proof that God is alive and active in our lives if we ask Him for His help".

And everyone just nodded their heads in agreement. I was the only one that seemed off-put by the whole thing. "Coincidence" != "God exists and controls what happens in our life".

In any case, I don't know what I am doing or where I am going with this. Like i said, the addictive behaviours haven't been nagging as much - I don't feel the pull 24 hours a day, I no longer find myself waking up at midnight needing a fix, I haven't felt as much of a need to sate the addiction during the last 2 months. Partly because of "the fellowship", but also partly because I have a new doctor that I am working with that is helping me with mechanisms to help weaken the addiction. But going to these places that say that I am doomed for failure if I don't pray, if I don't surrender my will over to God, if I don't become a servant to my higher power, if I don't ask Him to direct my life, if I don't ask Him to fix me in return for my devotion to Him..... it all makes me feel like they pay lip service to helping atheists, but really just want them in the door so they can convert them.

[Thor]

I asked my best friend to post or contact you, he is also someone who has gone through all this and is now 5 years sober! I'm sure he can give some great advice.

[DuffMan]

You should try to find a 12 step program that isn't so religious.

[First Lady]

DA do you have a sponsor? If not, perhaps you should try to find one who is also an atheist; one who has already worked the steps.

[Vulcan]

I grew up as an atheist and we had to stand, close our eyes and repeat the Lord's Prayer every morning. Do public schools still do this? Anyways I found it awkward much as you are finding this part of your treatment. I don't know what to say other than perhaps using mother earth as a symbol for your god. This is something that can be understood. Now when I find myself in a position of having to follow along with someones prayer, I just quietly follow my breath.

And good luck with your problem. I went through a serious addiction myself many years ago. Luckily it doesn't affect my inner life in any way any more. Speaking of inner life, I found the mental aspects much harder to resolve then the physical although the physical was terrible as well.

Maybe try a meditation group. They may try to put in a religious theme as well but the basics of meditation doesn't require any belief.

[SebC]

I am an atheist and I feel awkward singing Canada's national anthem. =/

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

You should try to find a 12 step program that isn't so religious.

Such as? All 12 step programs are based on the same basic theme: "If you can't beat the addiction, turn your life over to God and ask Him to beat the addiction where you could not".

And no, I do not have a sponsor because I CANNOT FIND ONE THAT IS AN ATHEIST. When I tell potential sponsors that I am an atheist, they point me to the "To the Agnostics" chapter of the AA big book. That chapter states that most people who join 12 step programs are atheists or agnostics because their life is such misery that they can't believe that there is a good God. However, as they recover or at least see others recover from the disease, this miracle makes them believe in God. So in other words, it's okay that I am an atheist, but I'll be healed when I start believing in God.

[Daradon]

There are groups that put far less emphasis on the religious/spiritual aspects of those steps. I believe you've found one that does (put a lot of emphasis on God), a lot of them do. And for you, that's unfortunate. I dated a girl who was in the program to kick a particular drug habit and that was the part she had the hardest part with too.

I imagine it must be very difficult, but I would just not buy into what they are trying to say in regards to God. You know your viewpoint is valid, and you do know you are healing, so just try to block out that part.

Maybe instead of saying prayers, say affirmations of your own choosing or creation. The steps Troutman posted above seemed pretty good.

And while you are doing that in the meantime, try to find a group that doesn't put so much emphasis on God in that sense. They do exist. Yes that material was created, but it doesn't mean all groups use it.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Such as? All 12 step programs are based on the same basic theme: "If you can't beat the addiction, turn your life over to God and ask Him to beat the addiction where you could not".

I actually have no idea. It just seems to me the religious people running these are preying on people who are temporarily vulnerable.

There's got to be programs who want you to believe in yourself and not putting your faith of recovery in a supernatural being.

Ask them to prove God exists so you are able to put your faith into their program.

Sorry, I'm not helping you and your situation, but remember, the same kind of people think you can pray away the gay.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

I actually have no idea. It just seems to me the religious people running these are preying on people who are temporarily vulnerable.

There's got to be programs who want you to believe in yourself and not putting your faith of recovery in a supernatural being.

Ask them to prove God exists so you are able to put your faith into their program.

Sorry, I'm not helping you and your situation, but remember, the same kind of people think you can pray away the gay.

Why would you do that. If the religious accent isn't for the addict there are plenty of other programs without that element.

But going into one where people are actually finding that faith based steps are helping them and debating them on the existence of god is not only stupid, but selfish and you could hurt peoples recovery. A lot of people that council and teach those steps are former addicts who still follow those mantra's every day to stay clean and sober.


in my mind for addiction recovery its all about whatever works best for the addict. There are times and places for faith based discussions, honestly I don't think this is one of those places.


Sometimes having faith is god excreta for some people at their lowest point is very helpful to their recovery.

Devil, I'm really proud that your getting help for your addiction issue btw, it takes a incredibly strong person to beat it, and every person has their own recovery needs and there are programs that might not have the religious slant as well.

Make sure that your comfortable with whatever program your following and its good for you in the forever term.

[Devils'Advocate]

Personally, in some ways I find the program rather heinous.

1) It takes people at the worst points in their life, when they are at their most vulnerable and tells them that everything will be all right if they believe in their imaginary friend.
2) The people then are told to surrender and dedicate their entire lives over to the will of this imaginary friend.
3) It tells people that in order to recover they MUST find other vulnerable people and tell them about this imaginary friend.

I think the program, created in the 1930s, was DESIGNED to manipulate the vulnerable. I find the same disgusting behaviour in some Christian aide groups in Africa which spend half their time on food/shelter and the other half converting the people. People living on the brink are looking for something, ANYTHING, that will help them live. And they will sacrifice anything for it, including their beliefs and free will.

What bothers me most is that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of choices out there. Most courts, particularly in the US, MANDATE that people with addiction problems attend a 12 step program because most cities don't have any other type of community-based addiction treating support groups. So people often face the choice of having their lives owned by their addiction or having their lives owned by God.

There is, of course, addictions counselling, but that is disgustingly expensive and generally out of reach for those that need it the most.