The Misandry Bubble

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by To Be Quite Honest

Alright, I have heard back from one individual. Not the original writer as the original website is strictly voluntary and I am on their time, but I think this is great. It's a good way to help me clear things on rebuilding the familyofmen website for the future.

Thank you for this information, however, picking some of these and checking the sources, I seem to be having trouble confirming some of the claims. I hope you can help me with that.

*Law professor Linda Kelly noted, "leading sociologists have repeatedly found that men and women commit violence at similar rates." [Source: Linda Kelly: Disabusing the definition of domestic abuse. Florida State University Law Review, Vol. 30, pages 791-855, 2003. Accessible at: http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawr.../304/kelly.pdf ]

No where in that publication is there any reference to that quote, nor could I locate any probable sociological sources in the references (who the hell uses footnotes but no citation list or bibliography?! - Damn Lawyers)

*According to one Canadian study, boys are 50% more likely to be physically abused by their parents than girls.”-Bernard Chapin (Chapin’s Inferno)

While it might be true, you seem to have quoted a youtube video, and I cannot locate the study they are claiming to reference.

*Child Sexual Abuse is 40% more likely to occur in single-mother households. -David Finkelhor Family Research Laboratory.

Who is the perpetrator of that sexual abuse? I can think of many reasons why a single parent home would have more incidents of abuse, sexual or not, not relating to the sex of the parent.

Addictionally, it does not appear that the Family Research Labratory has any peer-review publications, so I am assuming this information has recieved little or no scrutiny.

* Women commit most child abuse and most elder abuse.
*Women are more likely to commit major physical abuse of their children than are men. (56.8% to 43.3% respectively).-RADAR report.

Cannot locate any reference to the Radar report online, baring an episode of MASH and reports pertaining to Doppler Radar. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction?

Also, some of these statistics, even if they are true, are meaningless in the context of this discussion. Perhaps some details were left out, feel free to clarify.

*50% of homeless youth reported being sexually abused by a female. From: It’s Not What You Think: Sexually Exploited Youth in British Columbia. http://www.nursing.ubc.ca/PDFs/ItsNotWhatYouThink.pdf

What's the % for men?

*94% of sexually abused youth in correctional facilities reported being abused by female staff. From: Sexual Victimization in Juvenile Facilities, 2008-09. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/svjfry09.pdf

Again, whats the % for men? What % of correctional employees are female?

*Men are 76% of homicide victims-DOJ
*Murder rate of men is 4X that of women. Assault rate of men is 8X that of women.-(US Statistical Abstract, 1992)

Not relevant, and possibly misleading, without discussing how many of the people committing those murders were men or women.

*In a representative sample of 2,603 women & 2,105 men it was found that 37% of the men & 35% of women inflicted some form of physical aggression, while 39% of the men & 32% of the women received some form of physical aggression.)-White, J. W., & Koss, M. P. (1991). Courtship violence: Incidence in a national sample of higher education students. Violence and
[I]Victims, 6, 247-256.

Again, not relevant, and possibly misleading, without discussing how many of the people committing those acts against men were female.

* Women are three times more likely than men to use weapons in spousal violence.
Drew Bass is a 6’-3”, 350 lbs former commando & a victim of domestic violence. Twice, Drew’s wife tried to run him down with a car, & on numerous other occasions, she poisoned his food. Women usually use weapons, or poisons or strike when men are asleep to even the odds.

This evidence is interesting, but without any sort of statistical data, meaningless. Is there a source?

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Thank you for this information, however, picking some of these and checking the sources, I seem to be having trouble confirming some of the claims. I hope you can help me with that.

No where in that publication is there any reference to that quote, nor could I locate any probable sociological sources in the references (who the hell uses footnotes but no citation list or bibliography?! - Damn Lawyers)

While it might be true, you seem to have quoted a youtube video, and I cannot locate the study they are claiming to reference.

Who is the perpetrator of that sexual abuse? I can think of many reasons why a single parent home would have more incidents of abuse, sexual or not, not relating to the sex of the parent.

Addictionally, it does not appear that the Family Research Labratory has any peer-review publications, so I am assuming this information has recieved little or no scrutiny.

Cannot locate any reference to the Radar report online, baring an episode of MASH and reports pertaining to Doppler Radar. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction?

Also, some of these statistics, even if they are true, are meaningless in the context of this discussion. Perhaps some details were left out, feel free to clarify.

What's the % for men?

Again, whats the % for men? What % of correctional employees are female?

Not relevant, and possibly misleading, without discussing how many of the people committing those murders were men or women.

Again, not relevant, and possibly misleading, without discussing how many of the people committing those acts against men were female.

This evidence is interesting, but without any sort of statistical data, meaningless. Is there a source?

“Now where in that publication is there any reference to that quote”

Rathji, first of all thank you for taking the time to review my massive post however I’m not sure you even read the document as that quote is literally the first sentence of the second paragraph of the introduction on the first page. Here is the entire paragraph:
“Over the last twenty-five years, leading sociologists have repeatedly found that men and women commit violence at similar rates. The 1977 assertion that “the phenomenon of husband battering” is as prevalent as wife abuse is confirmed by nationally representative studies, such as the Family Violence Surveys, as well as by numerous other sources. However, despite the wealth and diversity of the sociological research and the consistency of the findings, female violence is not recognized within the extensive legal literature on domestic violence. Instead, the literature consistently suggests that only men commit domestic violence. Either explicitly, or more often implicitly, through the failure to address the subject in any objective manner, female violence is denied, defended and minimized.”
As for sociological sources, these were listed conveniently at the bottom of the pages. Suzanne K. Steinmetz, The Battered Husband Syndrome, 1975 Family Violence Survey similar surveys conducted in 1985 and 1992 by the same individuals, see RICHARD J. GELLES, INTIMATE VIOLENCE IN FAMILIES (3d. ed. 1997) (comparing results of the 1975, 1985 and 1992 surveys) [hereinafter INTIMATE VIOLENCE IN FAMILIES]; RICHARD J. GELLES & MURRAY A. STRAUS, INTIMATE VIOLENCE (1988) To name a few.
The paper goes on to conclude this fact.
Here is some more research on the topic. It’s out there and Domestic Violence (DV) by women is factually just as serious and it must be addressed:
http://www.mediaradar.org/research.php
http://www.mediaradar.org/media_fact_sheet.php


“While it might be true, you seem to have quoted a youtube video”

Bernard Chapin is an honorable & honest man who presents is information in an entertaining way. In over 1300 videos I’ve never once seen him try to sell a lie as a fact. Integrity is important to him. If you still don’t like his delivery then here is a British study conducted in 2002 by a Susan Creighton:
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/research/briefings/physicalabuse_wda48220.html
“8000 children were registered for physical abuse in England during the year ending 31 March 2001”
“Infants and boys are more likely to be physically abused than older children and girls.”

“Child Sexual Abuse is 40% more likely to occur in single-mother households. -David Finkelhor Family Research Laboratory.”

-“Who is the perpetrator of that sexual abuse? I can think of many reasons why a single parent home would have more incidents of abuse, sexual or not, not relating to the sex of the parent.”

Well, that is true, so I’ll concede you that one & press on.

Edit - I found a book called Female Sexual Abuse of Children - by Michelle Elliot - Women replacing the male child as the "man of the household". I haven't read it yet but it is now on my list.

Cannot locate any reference to the Radar report online, baring an episode of MASH and reports pertaining to Doppler Radar. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction?

“Women are more likely to commit major physical abuse of their children than are men. (56.8% to 43.3% respectively).-RADAR report.”
[MEDIA]radar, actually. I should have clarified. I can’t recall which study it was which provided that stat, I’ll have re-read them & jot that down for future reference. In the mean time, here is more data on this, courtesy of the The US Department of health and Human Services:
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm08/figure3_6.htm


“Violence against family members is something women do at least as often as men!”
That is my thesis statement in this debate. Domestic violence is clearly not a gendered issue. It is a crime committed by & on both genders. In roughly equal numbers. Therefore, we should be providing aid to ALL victims of abuse regardless of their gender. That’s all I’m about and what society should be about as well.

“50% of homeless youth reported being sexually abused by a female.”

“What's the % for men?”

Why does this matter in a discussion towards the ignorance towards male abuse? Again, all I am out to prove here is that women are also abusers. I’m sure there are youth homeless who are abused by men, but society doesn’t deny their existence.
“94% of sexually abused youth in correctional facilities reported being abused by female staff.”

“Again, whats the % for men? What % of correctional employees are female?”

Why is this relevant in the debate again? I don’t see things like this as a zero sum game, (men vs women). I am merely pointing out to you, that a significant number of abusers are in fact, women. I think perhaps you are falling victim to what is expressed in latin as “Expressio unius est exclusio alterius”. Or, the expressed mention of one thing, implicitly excludes all others. To be sure, some abusers are indeed men. Nobody is denying that. All my facts are meant to do is demonstrate how erroneous it is to frame crimes like rape of domestic violence as something only men perpetrate & to then hand out aid to only half of the victims of it.

*Men are 76% of homicide victims-DOJ
*Murder rate of men is 4X that of women. Assault rate of men is 8X that of women.-(US Statistical Abstract, 1992)
Given these statistical realities, why is it erroneous to assume that most of the victims of women, are men? If I had used these stats to assert that most of the victims of men were other men, would you take issue with that? Point is, men are CLEARLY being victimized in appalling numbers. Let’s help these guys out, & hopefully, get these numbers down. What’s wrong with that?

[I] In a representative sample of 2,603 women & 2,105 men it was found that 37% of the men & 35% of women inflicted some form of physical aggression, while 39% of the men & 32% of the women received some form of physical aggression.)-White, J. W., & Koss, M. P. (1991). Courtship violence: Incidence in a national sample of higher education students. Violence and Victims, 6, 247-256.
This IS relevant, in proving my argument of gender symmetry in domestic violence. DV is DV, regardless of the gender of the perpetrator or their victim(s).

The story of Drew Baas can be heard on the second episode of A Voice For Men radio “Violent Women & Government Lies” linked here:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/avoiceformen/2011/03/09/violent-women-and-government-lies
Mr. Baas begins telling his shocking, appalling, & at times, infuriating story at the 39:20 minute mark.
His is just one of countless other men’s story’s that too often end tragically in this unjust society. The man lost his daughter, his home, his possessions (including his late father’s possessions & his dogs) & could not convince the local police to even arrest his abuser despite his well documented incidents of her fraud, abuse & attempted murder.
I ask you, is this justice?

I was incorrect in posting that more men are murdered and I have already stated that it will be rectified however here is a shot video just to hit the point of equal shelter assistance.

Click me.

If this is happening, you know what, I'll be happy to accept 33.3% of funding if murder was the only justification for a shelter...

[Tinordi]

This thread is a disgrace.

sexism alive and well, if I'm going to get riled up about something it certainly won't be about the fiction that the poor white male somehow has it hard in our society.

I'll probably get riled up about the persistent and terrible violence against women in our society.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

This thread is a disgrace.

sexism alive and well, if I'm going to get riled up about something it certainly won't be about the fiction that the poor white male somehow has it hard in our society.

I'll probably get riled up about the persistent and terrible violence against women in our society.

Back it up with proof instead of relying on a blind ignorant statement. I have. So disprove it. Show me the studies and evidence that disprove the above. Get to work. Spend some time learning something.

Actually point out the sexism. YOU do it Tinordi. Point it out. I'm calling you out on this. I resent the implication. I love almost every women in my life and infact the only women I do not have love for have abused me and others I love. I would defend those I love with my life male or female. I am not asking for preferential treatment. I am asking for complete equality with in DV issues.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by To Be Quite Honest

“Now where in that publication is there any reference to that quote”

Rathji, first of all thank you for taking the time to review my massive post however I’m not sure you even read the document as that quote is literally the first sentence of the second paragraph of the introduction on the first page. Here is the entire paragraph:
“Over the last twenty-five years, leading sociologists have repeatedly found that men and women commit violence at similar rates. The 1977 assertion that “the phenomenon of husband battering” is as prevalent as wife abuse is confirmed by nationally representative studies, such as the Family Violence Surveys, as well as by numerous other sources. However, despite the wealth and diversity of the sociological research and the consistency of the findings, female violence is not recognized within the extensive legal literature on domestic violence. Instead, the literature consistently suggests that only men commit domestic violence. Either explicitly, or more often implicitly, through the failure to address the subject in any objective manner, female violence is denied, defended and minimized.”
As for sociological sources, these were listed conveniently at the bottom of the pages. Suzanne K. Steinmetz, The Battered Husband Syndrome, 1975 Family Violence Survey similar surveys conducted in 1985 and 1992 by the same individuals, see RICHARD J. GELLES, INTIMATE VIOLENCE IN FAMILIES (3d. ed. 1997) (comparing results of the 1975, 1985 and 1992 surveys) [hereinafter INTIMATE VIOLENCE IN FAMILIES]; RICHARD J. GELLES & MURRAY A. STRAUS, INTIMATE VIOLENCE (1988) To name a few.
The paper goes on to conclude this fact.
Here is some more research on the topic. It’s out there and Domestic Violence (DV) by women is factually just as serious and it must be addressed:
http://www.mediaradar.org/research.php
http://www.mediaradar.org/media_fact_sheet.php


“While it might be true, you seem to have quoted a youtube video”

Bernard Chapin is an honorable & honest man who presents is information in an entertaining way. In over 1300 videos I’ve never once seen him try to sell a lie as a fact. Integrity is important to him. If you still don’t like his delivery then here is a British study conducted in 2002 by a Susan Creighton:
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/research/briefings/physicalabuse_wda48220.html
“8000 children were registered for physical abuse in England during the year ending 31 March 2001”
“Infants and boys are more likely to be physically abused than older children and girls.”

“Child Sexual Abuse is 40% more likely to occur in single-mother households. -David Finkelhor Family Research Laboratory.”

-“Who is the perpetrator of that sexual abuse? I can think of many reasons why a single parent home would have more incidents of abuse, sexual or not, not relating to the sex of the parent.”

Well, that is true, so I’ll concede you that one & press on.

Edit - I found a book called Female Sexual Abuse of Children - by Michelle Elliot - Women replacing the male child as the "man of the household". I haven't read it yet but it is now on my list.

Cannot locate any reference to the Radar report online, baring an episode of MASH and reports pertaining to Doppler Radar. Perhaps you can point me in the right direction?

“Women are more likely to commit major physical abuse of their children than are men. (56.8% to 43.3% respectively).-RADAR report.”
[MEDIA]radar, actually. I should have clarified. I can’t recall which study it was which provided that stat, I’ll have re-read them & jot that down for future reference. In the mean time, here is more data on this, courtesy of the The US Department of health and Human Services:
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm08/figure3_6.htm


“Violence against family members is something women do at least as often as men!”
That is my thesis statement in this debate. Domestic violence is clearly not a gendered issue. It is a crime committed by & on both genders. In roughly equal numbers. Therefore, we should be providing aid to ALL victims of abuse regardless of their gender. That’s all I’m about and what society should be about as well.

“50% of homeless youth reported being sexually abused by a female.”

“What's the % for men?”

Why does this matter in a discussion towards the ignorance towards male abuse? Again, all I am out to prove here is that women are also abusers. I’m sure there are youth homeless who are abused by men, but society doesn’t deny their existence.
“94% of sexually abused youth in correctional facilities reported being abused by female staff.”

“Again, whats the % for men? What % of correctional employees are female?”

Why is this relevant in the debate again? I don’t see things like this as a zero sum game, (men vs women). I am merely pointing out to you, that a significant number of abusers are in fact, women. I think perhaps you are falling victim to what is expressed in latin as “Expressio unius est exclusio alterius”. Or, the expressed mention of one thing, implicitly excludes all others. To be sure, some abusers are indeed men. Nobody is denying that. All my facts are meant to do is demonstrate how erroneous it is to frame crimes like rape of domestic violence as something only men perpetrate & to then hand out aid to only half of the victims of it.

*Men are 76% of homicide victims-DOJ
*Murder rate of men is 4X that of women. Assault rate of men is 8X that of women.-(US Statistical Abstract, 1992)
Given these statistical realities, why is it erroneous to assume that most of the victims of women, are men? If I had used these stats to assert that most of the victims of men were other men, would you take issue with that? Point is, men are CLEARLY being victimized in appalling numbers. Let’s help these guys out, & hopefully, get these numbers down. What’s wrong with that?

[I] In a representative sample of 2,603 women & 2,105 men it was found that 37% of the men & 35% of women inflicted some form of physical aggression, while 39% of the men & 32% of the women received some form of physical aggression.)-White, J. W., & Koss, M. P. (1991). Courtship violence: Incidence in a national sample of higher education students. Violence and Victims, 6, 247-256.
This IS relevant, in proving my argument of gender symmetry in domestic violence. DV is DV, regardless of the gender of the perpetrator or their victim(s).

The story of Drew Baas can be heard on the second episode of A Voice For Men radio “Violent Women & Government Lies” linked here:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/avoiceformen/2011/03/09/violent-women-and-government-lies
Mr. Baas begins telling his shocking, appalling, & at times, infuriating story at the 39:20 minute mark.
His is just one of countless other men’s story’s that too often end tragically in this unjust society. The man lost his daughter, his home, his possessions (including his late father’s possessions & his dogs) & could not convince the local police to even arrest his abuser despite his well documented incidents of her fraud, abuse & attempted murder.
I ask you, is this justice?

I was incorrect in posting that more men are murdered and I have already stated that it will be rectified however here is a shot video just to hit the point of equal shelter assistance.

Click me.

If this is happening, you know what, I'll be happy to accept 33.3% of funding if murder was the only justification for a shelter...

thanks for the clarifications.

I think the fact that women commit violence is obvious. I thought your claim generally was that Women commit more violence against men than men do against women, but I probably just read into your claims a bit more than you intended.

I will respond in more detail when I get access to a computer.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by Rathji

thanks for the clarifications.

I think the fact that women commit violence is obvious. I thought your claim generally was that Women commit more violence against men than men do against women, but I probably just read into your claims a bit more than you intended.

I will respond in more detail when I get access to a computer.

This seems to be the common thought for some reason. It is NOT an attack towards women, but a much need call for equal support where aid is clearly one sided towards the female gender.

If men received $500 million a year for shelters and women received $0 although the abuse was equal would there not be a call to action to fix this problem? Also, you can bet that we as men (who protect our women without hesitation) would gladly support it. It's ridiculous that the issue is being laughed at, bullied, and patronized.

[firebug]

The thing that you seem to miss though is that even if abuse was equivalent both ways, the need for emergency shelter is going to be far greater for women in our society due to the economic disparity between men and women.

Since men still typically out earn women their ability to secure a safe place to stay is far greater. THis is especially true when children are brought into the picture.

[HPLovecraft]

The abuse is NOT equal, TBQH. Severity is absolutely key here. And if you want funding from the Canadian government do not use demographics from an entirely separate nation. I don't want to be harsh, but it's laughable your call is for more funding in Canada while using statistics from the United States concerning the population of the United States as justification.

I need to ask a question: is this about getting men help that need help or is it about a drive for equality between men and women? Because it seems to me as if it's about one of these things much more so than the other, even while it's not claimed as such.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by firebug

The thing that you seem to miss though is that even if abuse was equivalent both ways, the need for emergency shelter is going to be far greater for women in our society due to the economic disparity between men and women.

Since men still typically out earn women their ability to secure a safe place to stay is far greater. THis is especially true when children are brought into the picture.

What? Prove your claim. This has already been discussed in this thread and it isn't factual at all.

So a man being threatened with a knife by his wife is forced to take his kids to a ... hotel... Instead he could take them to a shelter where there would be support.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

The abuse is NOT equal, TBQH. Severity is absolutely key here. And if you want funding from the Canadian government do not use demographics from an entirely separate nation. I don't want to be harsh, but it's laughable your call is for more funding in Canada while using statistics from the United States concerning the population of the United States as justification.

I need to ask a question: is this about getting men help that need help or is it about a drive for equality between men and women? Because it seems to me as if it's about one of these things much more so than the other, even while it's not claimed as such.

The Domestic Violence is not at parity men and women are not being harmed at similar rates? Then you didn't read anything I posted with any attempt to analyze and understand and rationally conclude by the facts and numbers and also you are just being difficult. It's hardly laughable. It's deeply concerning and disturbing.

Why is it a slight to use American figures? Culturally, Canada & the USA are very similar. (At least, compared to all other nations). I also have British figures there too.

Additionally, America has 10 times the population Canada does. Since when did citing larger sample sizes diminish the credibility of an argument?

In the beginning I shared with you and the board that I have been assisting the only mens shelter in Canada for the last 3 months. I'm pretty sure this question has already been answered by my actions.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by To Be Quite Honest

Why is it a slight to use American figures? Culturally, Canada & the USA are very similar.

Not when it comes to violence. The U.S. has always trended higher than Canada.

[troutman]

Speaking Out Against Hate Directed at Women: Phil Plait
http://skepchick.org/2012/08/speakin...en-phil-plait/

Welcome to the sixteenth installment in my series where I ask the men who are leaders in the secular communities to speak out against the hate we have seen primarily directed at women.

What the hell is going on in the online community?

If you’ve been reading or paying attention at all to any of the online
cultures like skepticism or general geekery (scifi, gaming,
convention-going, and so on), you’ll have seen astonishing and
depressing displays of sexism. That’s been true for a long time. But
recently some sort of sea change has occurred, and what we’re seeing
now is a marked increase in outright misogyny and thuggery.

http://www.gender-focus.com/2012/07/...lls/#more-2900

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by troutman

Speaking Out Against Hate Directed at Women: Phil Plait
http://skepchick.org/2012/08/speakin...en-phil-plait/

Welcome to the sixteenth installment in my series where I ask the men who are leaders in the secular communities to speak out against the hate we have seen primarily directed at women.

What the hell is going on in the online community?

If you’ve been reading or paying attention at all to any of the online
cultures like skepticism or general geekery (scifi, gaming,
convention-going, and so on), you’ll have seen astonishing and
depressing displays of sexism. That’s been true for a long time. But
recently some sort of sea change has occurred, and what we’re seeing
now is a marked increase in outright misogyny and thuggery.

That's only half the story. No one reports on the abusive female gamers bullying defenseless male gamers.

[Tinordi]

If the OPs post was to raise awareness about domestic violence against men then he's really gone about it in the wrong way. After reading through his posts it's clear that domestic violence against men is an issue and that we should potentially look into what we can do about it.

What I really take issue with is this dichotomy belittling the violence that women face. You don't need to do that to highlight your own issue and that's why myself and many others got their back up. He painted it as a zero sum issue in that we need to divert money from women's shelters to men's shelters which is just polarizing and completely threw this thread and his issue out of whack.

If anything this is a lesson in framing and delivery and what happens when you do a bad job at it.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

If the OPs post was to raise awareness about domestic violence against men then he's really gone about it in the wrong way. After reading through his posts it's clear that domestic violence against men is an issue and that we should potentially look into what we can do about it.

What I really take issue with is this dichotomy belittling the violence that women face. You don't need to do that to highlight your own issue and that's why myself and many others got their back up. He painted it as a zero sum issue in that we need to divert money from women's shelters to men's shelters which is just polarizing and completely threw this thread and his issue out of whack.

If anything this is a lesson in framing and delivery and what happens when you do a bad job at it.

I don't think the original poster had any intention of discussing domestic violence against men. To Be Quite Honest brought it up to add on to the discussion as an example of misandry. I think TBQH should have started his own thread on domestic violence toward men and funding for domestic shelters instead of lumping it in with this thread. It probably is deserved of attention and funding. I also think he clouds the issue by saying that it deserves equal funding in Canada because it is as big of a problem in the US. It doesn't matter if the cultures are similar you fund programs according to need in your country not others. That would be like saying Canada needs to put more money towards fighting illegal immigration because it's a huge problem in the US (just an example not something to argue about.)

[missdpuck]

Perhaps I missed this as it is a long thread. Are there any stats on the likelihood of reporting said violence in terms of sex of victim ?

Women not pressing charges out of fear, perhaps men not doing so out of embarrassment.

This brings up memories of a sick story. A woman I know attacked her husband twice with a drill. First by trying to hit him with it, then by trying to drill him as he slept. She spent a couple of nights in jail, but nothing serious happened to her legally aside from that. She suffered no loss of friends etc after the incident. It seems like some thought she was some kind of heroine and most of her clique had quite a laugh about it. Incidentally, no, these people aren't from some crumbling trailer park. This woman also did quite a number on the guy's plane.

If a guy did that to a woman he'd be toast.

[SeeBass]

[To Be Quite Honest]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

If the OPs post was to raise awareness about domestic violence against men then he's really gone about it in the wrong way. After reading through his posts it's clear that domestic violence against men is an issue and that we should potentially look into what we can do about it.

What I really take issue with is this dichotomy belittling the violence that women face. You don't need to do that to highlight your own issue and that's why myself and many others got their back up. He painted it as a zero sum issue in that we need to divert money from women's shelters to men's shelters which is just polarizing and completely threw this thread and his issue out of whack.

If anything this is a lesson in framing and delivery and what happens when you do a bad job at it.

Point out the belittling. Where is it? Where have I said that women should fend for themselves (a zero sum issue) and men should get everything. I bet you I can point out the misandry and we can compare who is actually zero sum thinking. So you point out the belittling (misogany) and I'll point out the misandry.

I think it clearly states that if half the DV is caused by women then half should go to men to help them. Heck I even said a quarter if you want to use murder as the only sign that help is needed. Not ONCE have I belittled women. It's clearly an issue that men, who get a drill in the face while he sleeps, can't get any help. Instead it will be questioned, what did he do to deserve it? NOBODY DESERVES IT - A woman or man! It's not okay to hit a woman and it's not okay to hit a man.

It's like pulling teeth as you fight what I explain even though it is clearly pointed out to you and guess what. Canada has SIMILAR PERCENTAGE NUMBERS!

http://j.mp/Nmng3u

Rates of spousal violence by a current or previous partner in the 5 year period were 7% for women and 6% for men, representing an estimated 653,000 women and 546,000 men. While there was no statistically significant change in the level of spousal violence against men since 1999 (7% versus 6%), there was a small but statistically significant decline for women during this period (8% versus 7%).

Do you know what the issue is? I brought up an uncomfortable message and that message sucks. Everybody in our society who needs help should get it and it is clear that only one sex is getting that help right now.

$500 million for Womens shelters and 0 for Men's shelters.

I showed a need for them. That is all.

So what should we do? Start a petition to get a few shelters for men? Lets see who uses them when they are properly funded and supported.

If I started a petition would you sign that? Thank this post if you would sign that at least and I'll get on it.

[BruinsFan10101]

Yeah, it is pretty screwed up that men & boys today get virtually zero assistance when it comes to being the victims of domestic violence or rape. Even though these are clearly problems affecting both genders at roughly the same degree.
...In fact, there are so manly people in society today who have been so miseducated by decades of feminist propaganda, that they are virtually incapable of recognizing male victims of anything, much less helping them. So you could say men actually have negative help from society.
If it were this way for women, you could bet your bottom dollar society wouldn't tolerate that for a red second. (nor should it).

But the part that makes this seem like we're living in the bloody twilight zone is where we have government policies, organizations & charities (funded by taxpayer dollars) that exist to lend aid to ONLY the female victims in society. & everybody frames these issues as though male victims don't even exist!
Here are 286 scholarly investigations: 221 empirical studies and 65 reviews and/or analyses that prove otherwise:
http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
Its just absolutely insane!

When is society going to get a grip on reality here? Men are human beings too. What if we woke up tomorrow & the homepage of the Flames website read:
"Jerome Iginla shot dead by wife while sleeping".
I think a great many people would care about THAT. But why doesn't that same attitude translate to all men in society? Why do we only have sympathy & humanity for males who are in our own families or men who can do #### for us?
It's all pretty ####ed up.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Hey Bruins10101 thanks for speaking up!

It's simply amazing the link I provided has 29 downloads and nobody except seebass has the respect for men to agree that shelters are needed for them when they have no place to go for help. It's blatant misandry if you look at the evidence.