A Song of Ice and Fire **Spoilers** Now more TV talk!

[TurnedTheCorner]

I am having a really, really hard time getting into ADWD.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

I am having a really, really hard time getting into ADWD.

Really? I found it an easier read after slogging through book 4.

[YYC in LAX]

Love Jaime's transformation through the series. He threw Bran off the tower and can't be forgiven for that, but for some reason and I really like him.

Does anyone else feel this way? Seems Martin intentionally wrote it this way, but maybe it's just me.

Winds of Winter is so far away. #### me eh.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by YYC in LAX

Love Jaime's transformation through the series. He threw Bran off the tower and can't be forgiven for that, but for some reason and I really like him.

Does anyone else feel this way? Seems Martin intentionally wrote it this way, but maybe it's just me.

Winds of Winter is so far away. #### me eh.

I'm with you on liking Jaime as a character. Obviously the turning point was

Spoiler!

him losing his sword hand.

. That has forced him into an interesting direction, and I've really like it.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by YYC in LAX

Love Jaime's transformation through the series. He threw Bran off the tower and can't be forgiven for that, but for some reason and I really like him.

Does anyone else feel this way? Seems Martin intentionally wrote it this way, but maybe it's just me.

Winds of Winter is so far away. #### me eh.

I think that is just the nature of his characters. One minute you hate them and the next minute they surprise you and you start pulling for them.

Jaime is an interesting case because I hate his family but then again so does he. But he can still be an ass and yet I find myself pulling for him for helping out Brienne during AFFC.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I'm with you on liking Jaime as a character. Obviously the turning point was

Spoiler!

him losing his sword hand.

. That has forced him into an interesting direction, and I've really like it.

I don't agree that was his turning point, I just think he's an incredibly complex person who does things rashly.

Throwing Bran is indefensible, but he had motivation. And if you read his recollections of the sack of King's Landing, as well as his thoughts on Aerys, you realize how complex he really is.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Ped

I don't agree that was his turning point, I just think he's an incredibly complex person who does things rashly.

Throwing Bran is indefensible, but he had motivation. And if you read his recollections of the sack of King's Landing, as well as his thoughts on Aerys, you realize how complex he really is.

Your right, I'm probably wrong to call that a turning point. He definitely does act in what he perceives to be his (or sometimes others) best interests.

I wonder if the TV show will ever talk about why he really ended up The Kingslayer?

Spoiler!

Killing Aerys so that he didn't give the order to pretty much blow up all of Kings Landing with the dragonfire.

So cool to hear that inner monologue and how he has to wear the title while it was truly an action that saved countless thousands of lives.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Your right, I'm probably wrong to call that a turning point. He definitely does act in what he perceives to be his (or sometimes others) best interests.

I wonder if the TV show will ever talk about why he really ended up The Kingslayer?

Spoiler!

Killing Aerys so that he didn't give the order to pretty much blow up all of Kings Landing with the dragonfire.

So cool to hear that inner monologue and how he has to wear the title while it was truly an action that saved countless thousands of lives.

Perhaps not the turning point but it was a major event and maybe the last straw for him.

It really changed the way he acted after that. Gone was much of his bravado and he became a character filled with self loathing and regret. Not to mention resentment now that he was considered less of a man.

[scotty2hotty]

I stopped reading once I finished Storm of Swords after I read the horrific reviews for the next two books on amazon.

I may be way off base, but I just don't have the time nor inclination to invest in two full novels which barely advance the main storyline.

I'll wait for number 6. From the sounds of it, I'll be able to jump right in while barely missing a beat.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

I stopped reading once I finished Storm of Swords after I read the horrific reviews for the next two books on amazon.

I may be way off base, but I just don't have the time nor inclination to invest in two full novels which barely advance the main storyline.

I'll wait for number 6. From the sounds of it, I'll be able to jump right in while barely missing a beat.

I'm not going to try and convince you one way or another but I liked all the books and didn't have any of the issues with 4 that a lot of people had.

I do agree that sometimes the plot gets too expansive and advances too slowly but I still really enjoy the series.

But the main thing I wanted to address was your last point. I'm not sure if you can skip a third of the series and just jump on without any troubles. Just because the plot isn't advancing as quickly as we'd like doesn't negate the fact that the stories are incredibly complex and there are a billion characters. You won't know any of the character motivations or any of the events being referenced or understand how alligences have shifted etc etc.

IMO if you skipped 4 and 5 and went straight to 6 you'll be almost completely lost and it'll take a while to figure out what the hell is going on. That is assuming you don't go online and read summaries but then why would you bother with that and not just go read the books.

[Bobblehead]

I didn't have anywhere near the issues with books 4 & 5.

While it doesn't move as fast as the first 3, that is largely a result of how the books were divided and how spread out the storylines are. I think most people are unduly hard on the last 2 books simply because there was such a long and unexpected pause between the releases.

And I can't see how you could jump right into the 6th "while barely missing a beat". You will be totally lost. The plot may not progress as fast but a lot of character development happens.

[Bigtime]

The only way you can skip 4 & 5 without being completely lost is to read the Coles Notes versions on the fan pages. I guess that would give you enough info to understand. Book 5 definitely should be read, as it does introduce some new characters you may want to have a clue about (and some background and motives that are more fleshed out than a summary can give).

Also just remembered that if you skip 4 and 5 you miss THE best iceburn in the entire series. Just can't remember which book it is in. So you best read both to cover yourself.

Edit: Yup, the best line in the series (in my opinion) is spoken by Wyman Manderly in book 5.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I didn't have anywhere near the issues with books 4 & 5.

While it doesn't move as fast as the first 3, that is largely a result of how the books were divided and how spread out the storylines are. I think most people are unduly hard on the last 2 books simply because there was such a long and unexpected pause between the releases.

And I can't see how you could jump right into the 6th "while barely missing a beat". You will be totally lost. The plot may not progress as fast but a lot of character development happens.

Not only the pause but the fact a lot of "favourite" characters were left out of FFC, and DWD had another "favourite" (Tyrion) in such a different landscape.

I didn't like Feast the first read through, but the second time I enjoyed it a lot. I probably said it earlier in this thread but the insights into Jamie and the fact we finally see what the Dornish have been up to made the book worthy alone.

As for Dance, so much is good about it - the Manderlys, Theon, the epilogue...

[YYC in LAX]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

I stopped reading once I finished Storm of Swords after I read the horrific reviews for the next two books on amazon.

I may be way off base, but I just don't have the time nor inclination to invest in two full novels which barely advance the main storyline.

I'll wait for number 6. From the sounds of it, I'll be able to jump right in while barely missing a beat.

Brutal man. Gave up based on reviews? Did you enjoy the first three at least?
Personally, I enjoyed Feast and Dance.

And no, you won't be able to jump into number 6 without skipping a beat.

[bomber317]

Don't forget to take into account the context of the reviews.

At the time, A Feast of Crows was highly anticipated since it was 5 years since Storm of Swords. (the first 3 books were released in a span of 4 years) And when it came out, it turned out he split the book in 2 and the 2nd half would be published shortly thereafter. I was upset that I got half a book!

People were upset that their favorite characters weren't in this book and in actuality, the 2nd half of the book came out 6 years later.

Expectations were high, people are pissed off about the books and lots of criticism towards these 2 books.

You can put me in the camp of, these 2 books are good, not as good as the first 3. The plot moves very slowly and I wish book 6 would just come out so I can get some answers.

Very doubtful you can get away without reading these 2 books. You'd be missing out on a lot when you jump into book 6.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I wonder if the TV show will ever talk about why he really ended up The Kingslayer?

Spoiler!

Killing Aerys so that he didn't give the order to pretty much blow up all of Kings Landing with the dragonfire.

So cool to hear that inner monologue and how he has to wear the title while it was truly an action that saved countless thousands of lives.

I don't see them skipping over the part where he tells Brienne. Brienne has a special connection with Jaime because she's the only one who knows the truth and it gives the Oathkeeper/Oathbreaker name change meaning.

[scotty2hotty]

Hehehe ... some people take this really personally.

I'm not saying I flat out refuse to read books 4 and 5 ... I just need to decide where to devote my time. I have a list of about a dozen books I've been meaning to get to. Perhaps when I've plowed through a decent chunk of those, then I'll revisit this series. In the meantime, I'm just not desperate to get to book 4 after the generally poor reviews I've read.

Yes, I'm going by reviews.

I've really enjoyed books 1-3 and I'm genuinely interested to see where these characters go next. I'm not overly interested to invest in a few thousand pages of some secondary characters, however.

Again, I could be way out to lunch. I have no doubt that books 4 and 5 are at least decent. I'm just choosing to spend my limited reading hours elsewhere for now .... due, in large part, to the basic plot points I've read about.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

Hehehe ... some people take this really personally.

I don't really care if you read them or not, obviously, but I am surprised that someone could read A Storm of Swords and not immediately be looking for the next book. With that said I can easily see people getting bored with Feast and not completing the series.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

Again, I could be way out to lunch. I have no doubt that books 4 and 5 are at least decent. I'm just choosing to spend my limited reading hours elsewhere for now .... due, in large part, to the basic plot points I've read about.

Don't worry about your "limited reading hours", GRRM will take years to release the next book, or die before it is finished.

[d_phaneuf]

I think 4 and 5 are though of like that is because of the split, and because they came after storm of swords, which could have just been renamed "everything is happening"