The Misandry Bubble

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by To Be Quite Honest

A "deadbeat" is a man or woman who has agreed to have children and refused later to support them in any way they possibly can.

A "deadbeat" parent is also one who refuses the other parent proper child visitation.

Lets make sure the term "deadbeat" is used correctly here.

By having sex, even with protection, you are agreeing to be a parent. That's how biology works, baring cases where one or more person is infertile or in the obvious cases of homosexual sex, of course.

So the term is being used correctly, and that is really the crux of where your argument breaks down. You have sex, you are responsible for dealing with the kid that comes out of it, even if you don't have full control over all choice made in the lifespan of the fetus/kid.

For example, if an absentee father wanted to send his kid to public school but the mother wanted to send him to a boarding school (assuming the court agreed with the mother), that wouldn't mean the father would not be responsible for the dealing with results of that action, such as if the kid developed a disorder due to abuse or sexual assault while away at school. The father's wishes were not adhered to, and as a result he might face thousands of dollars in counselling or medical treatments, in addition to the consequences in the home, but does that mean he shouldn't have to pay?

What is your justification for just picking a random time after the kid has been conceived and say, well now as a father don't want to have responsibility for this anymore, even though I made the choice to have sex in the first place.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Cain

White guys only write things for/about white guys?

You just said you barely even skimmed it. Hell, just look at the pictures. Like I said, I think a white guy wrote it. If you think differently, fine.

I seriously doubt this "movement" is run by a bunch of minority dudes bitching about how The Man takes all their stuff and gives it to womyn.

There's only one guy here who might know if it is, but he doesn't respond to trolls like me.

[endeavor]

He is Indian. Last paragraph:

I personally am an Indian-American, and have lived in India for a few years. My exposure to India helped me see an alternative view, however flawed, of ancient societal structure, which made it easier to deduce exactly what is ailing America. If my views on gender dynamics are unwelcome in the country of my birth (the US), and if the costs of misandry asphyxiate the US economy to the extent that India is a greener pasture, I will leave my homeland and immigrate to India, where a freedom of speech exists that may no longer exist in America. Remarkably, the reverse was true just 20 years ago. For those misandrists who say 'good riddance' with great haste, remember that blogging can still be done from overseas, and your policy of making the top 1% of earners pay 40% of all taxes that your utopia requires depends on that top 1% agreeing to not take their brains and abscond from Western shores.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You just said you barely even skimmed it. Hell, just look at the pictures. Like I said, I think a white guy wrote it. If you think differently, fine.

I seriously doubt this "movement" is run by a bunch of minority dudes bitching about how The Man takes all their stuff and gives it to womyn.

There's only one guy here who might know if it is, but he doesn't respond to trolls like me.

Fair enough, I just don't see why it even matters. I presume you think it is ridiculous because if it is straight white guys complaining, then since you are a straight white guy and haven't experienced anything that their complaints are bogus?

I'd agree that straight white guys have it overall pretty awesome. Other groups have it worse. That doesn't validate unfair treatment towards straight white guys though.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Cain

Fair enough, I just don't see why it even matters. I presume you think it is ridiculous because if it is straight white guys complaining, then since you are a straight white guy and haven't experienced anything that their complaints are bogus?

I'd agree that straight white guys have it overall pretty awesome. Other groups have it worse. That doesn't validate unfair treatment towards straight white guys though.

What do you qualify as "unfair treatment towards straight white guys"?

[Cain]

Originally Posted by Rathji

What do you qualify as "unfair treatment towards straight white guys"?

Anything that would be deemed unfair to any other demographic. Everyone should be operating under the same rules with the same opportunities.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Rathji

By having sex, even with protection, you are agreeing to be a parent. That's how biology works, baring cases where one or more person is infertile or in the obvious cases of homosexual sex, of course.

Your quote is the crux of this discusiion and should read By having sex, even with protection, MEN are agreeing to be a parent WOMEN have an oppurtunity post conception but pre-birth to abdicate that responsibility.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by GGG

Your quote is the crux of this discusiion and should read By having sex, even with protection, MEN are agreeing to be a parent WOMEN have an oppurtunity post conception but pre-birth to abdicate that responsibility.

I see it more as offer and acceptance, kinda like contract law.

Man makes an offer (deposits seed) and sets a 9 month consideration period. The woman has 9 months to decide if she wants to accept your offer and carry a child to term or reject your offer and not.

If you make an offer to buy a house and give them three weeks to decide you can't back out 2.5 weeks later because the economy crashed.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by GGG

Your quote is the crux of this discusiion and should read By having sex, even with protection, MEN are agreeing to be a parent WOMEN have an oppurtunity post conception but pre-birth to abdicate that responsibility, but if they don't they will be fat, uncomfortable and piss with virtually no notice at all. Plus they will have to go through the wonderful process of child birth.

FYP, since you seemed concerned that it was not complete the way I posted it, I thought I should point out some you missed.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Cain

Anything that would be deemed unfair to any other demographic. Everyone should be operating under the same rules with the same opportunities.

The only way to make it 100% fair to both men and women, especially in the area of abortion rights that we have been discussing, is to create some sort of asexual super-sex that can produce children without any outside interference.

Or we can be logical and understand that biologically some things are not possible or just don't work with everyone having equal say in what happens.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Rathji

FYP, since you seemed concerned that it was not complete the way I posted it, I thought I should point out some you missed.

I am okay with your changes but I disagree that women's reproductive rights center around the discomfort of pregnancy.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by To Be Quite Honest

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

Come to a debate with something better than "no real man" please. Try a double dog dare, that might work better!

No real woman/man should force someone into an unwanted pregnancy to begin with.

That's rich. The nutter crying about men's rights and demanding the funding of $500 million to fund 'battered' mens shelters is going to lecture me on how I should post.

Grow a sac. You cry like your wife slapped you.

[Boshi]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Grow a sac. You cry like your wife slapped you.

Ouch...lol.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by To Be Quite Honest

I'm just going to ignore the ridiculous posts from now on myself. He doesn't really have any good input and is basically a troll.

I think you meant to say:

"I'm going to cover my ears and yell "Nyah, Nyah, Nyah" because I don't like what that mean man is saying to me.

Deadbeat loser fits.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by GGG

I am okay with your changes but I disagree that women's reproductive rights center around the discomfort of pregnancy.

I was not claiming that it centered around anything of the sort, I was simply pointing out that there are obvious biological difference in play that you are totally ignoring.

Just because men get to choose about their involvement in a pregnancy and potential birth at same time, when they choose to have sex, and women get to choose about their involvement in the pregnancy when they have sex and about the potential birth at some other time, does not change the fact that both people have those opportunity to make those choices.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by endeavor

He is Indian. Last paragraph:

Nice try. That was the second last paragraph. Who got burned now? Huh? Huh?

Anyway, point taken. Dumb thing to say on my part.

It actually all seems even a little weirder to me now that this guy is basically saying things are better in India than they are in the States, and threatening to up and move there if they don't straighten out this whole 'man hating" business.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by Rathji

The only way to make it 100% fair to both men and women, especially in the area of abortion rights that we have been discussing, is to create some sort of asexual super-sex that can produce children without any outside interference.

Or we can be logical and understand that biologically some things are not possible or just don't work with everyone having equal say in what happens.

I didn't think I had to lay it out that explicitly. I stated before that I wasn't really following the new direction of the thread regarding children/abortions. I was speaking in general terms not including the making of or caring of a baby.

I agree with some things being biologically divided out of necessity. Some things will never and cannot be divided equally...this is something I accept and was not really referring to. The implication that I am not being logical is fun though, thanks.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Cain

I didn't think I had to lay it out that explicitly. I stated before that I wasn't really following the new direction of the thread regarding children/abortions. I was speaking in general terms not including the making of or caring of a baby.

I agree with some things being biologically divided out of necessity. Some things will never and cannot be divided equally...this is something I accept and was not really referring to. The implication that I am not being logical is fun though, thanks.

I was only implying you were being illogical if you thought we should all be asexual to ensure absolute equity, as that is the only way it could happen.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Alright, I have heard back from one individual. Not the original writer as the original website is strictly voluntary and I am on their time, but I think this is great. It's a good way to help me clear things on rebuilding the familyofmen website for the future.

Most of the studys I have looked at are either Canada, USA, or England. The problem isn't just in Canada.

Violence against family members is something women do at least as often as men! There are dozens of solid scientific studies that reveal a startlingly different picture of family violence than what we usually see in the media. For instance:

There are actually hundreds.
*Cal State Psychology Professor Martin Fiebert has assembled a bibliography of 175 scholarly investigations: 139 empirical studies & 36 reviews &/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships w/ their spouses or male partners.
*An international survey of violence between dating partners in 16 countries concluded: “Perhaps the most important similarity is the high rate of assault perpetrated by both male and female students in all the countries.” [Source: Murray Straus: Prevalence of violence against dating partners by male and female university students worldwide. Violence Against Women, Vol. 10, No. 7, 2001].
*The National Youth Survey (NYS) which surveyed 1,725 individuals periodically over 17 years starting in 1976 found that incarcerated women commit acts of violence toward intimates at a rate slightly higher than men. Moreover many other researchers such as Straus & Gelles (National Family Violence Survey) established the same fact. This fundamental fact is reconfirmed in the exhaustive research of Philip W. Cook in his book, "Abused Men: The Hidden Side of Domestic Violence".
*Law professor Linda Kelly noted, "leading sociologists have repeatedly found that men and women commit violence at similar rates." [Source: Linda Kelly: Disabusing the definition of domestic abuse. Florida State University Law Review, Vol. 30, pages 791-855, 2003. Accessible at: http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawr.../304/kelly.pdf ]

* Women are three times more likely than men to use weapons in spousal violence.
Drew Bass is a 6’-3”, 350 lbs former commando & a victim of domestic violence. Twice, Drew’s wife tried to run him down with a car, & on numerous other occasions, she poisoned his food. Women usually use weapons, or poisons or strike when men are asleep to even the odds.

"Violence by Intimates Analysis of Data on Crimes by Current or Former Spouses, Boyfriends, and Girlfriends". US Department of Justice. Retrieved 2010-09-10.


* Women initiate most incidents of spousal violence.
*The U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention report, "In non reciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases. Reciprocity was associated w/ more frequent violence among women, but not men.”[Source: Whitaker, Haileyesus, Swahn & Saltzman, Differences in Frequency of Violence & Reported Injury Between
Relationships W/ Reciprocal & Nonreciprocal Intimate Partner Violence, American Journal of Public Health, May 2007, Vol.
97, No. 5, pp. 941-947
*In a representative sample of 2,603 women & 2,105 men it was found that 37% of the men & 35% of women inflicted some form of physical aggression, while 39% of the men & 32% of the women received some form of physical aggression.)-White, J. W., & Koss, M. P. (1991). Courtship violence: Incidence in a national sample of higher education students. Violence and
Victims, 6, 247-256.


* Women commit most child abuse and most elder abuse.
*Women are more likely to commit major physical abuse of their children than are men. (56.8% to 43.3% respectively).-RADAR report.
*Child Sexual Abuse is 40% more likely to occur in single-mother households. -David Finkelhor Family Research Laboratory.
*94% of sexually abused youth in correctional facilities reported being abused by female staff. From: Sexual Victimization in Juvenile Facilities, 2008-09. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/svjfry09.pdf
*Among inmates reporting staff sexual misconduct, 65% reported a female aggressor. From: Sexual Victimization in Prisons & Jails Reported by Inmates, 2008-09. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/svpjri0809.pdf
*50% of homeless youth reported being sexually abused by a female. From: It’s Not What You Think: Sexually Exploited Youth in British Columbia. http://www.nursing.ubc.ca/PDFs/ItsNotWhatYouThink.pdf

* Women hit their male children more frequently and more severely than they hit their female children.
*According to one Canadian study, boys are 50% more likely to be physically abused by their parents than girls.”-Bernard Chapin (Chapin’s Inferno)

* Women commit most child murders and 64% of their victims are male children.
Still looking for this one.

* When women murder adults the majority of their victims are men.

* When women murder adults the majority of their victims are men.
Not sure where you got that one. Sounds likely to me though, given the DV stats & the fact men are the majority of homicide & abuse victims.
*Men are 76% of homicide victims-DOJ
*Murder rate of men is 4X that of women. Assault rate of men is 8X that of women.-(US Statistical Abstract, 1992)

So I am going to remove this on the website. It is not clear and by its wording it is not factual.

* Women commit 52% of spousal killings and are convicted of 41% of spousal murders.

Still hunting for this information.

* Eighty two percent of the general population had their first experience of violence at the hands of women.

Still hunting for this information however there is a good talk on this with Girl Writes What.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by To Be Quite Honest

Alright, I have heard back from one individual. Not the original writer as the original website is strictly voluntary and I am on their time, but I think this is great. It's a good way to help me clear things on rebuilding the familyofmen website for the future.

Most of the studys I have looked at are either Canada, USA, or England. The problem isn't just in Canada.

Violence against family members is something women do at least as often as men! There are dozens of solid scientific studies that reveal a startlingly different picture of family violence than what we usually see in the media. For instance:

There are actually hundreds.
*Cal State Psychology Professor Martin Fiebert has assembled a bibliography of 175 scholarly investigations: 139 empirical studies & 36 reviews &/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships w/ their spouses or male partners.
*An international survey of violence between dating partners in 16 countries concluded: “Perhaps the most important similarity is the high rate of assault perpetrated by both male and female students in all the countries.” [Source: Murray Straus: Prevalence of violence against dating partners by male and female university students worldwide. Violence Against Women, Vol. 10, No. 7, 2001].
*The National Youth Survey (NYS) which surveyed 1,725 individuals periodically over 17 years starting in 1976 found that incarcerated women commit acts of violence toward intimates at a rate slightly higher than men. Moreover many other researchers such as Straus & Gelles (National Family Violence Survey) established the same fact. This fundamental fact is reconfirmed in the exhaustive research of Philip W. Cook in his book, "Abused Men: The Hidden Side of Domestic Violence".
*Law professor Linda Kelly noted, "leading sociologists have repeatedly found that men and women commit violence at similar rates." [Source: Linda Kelly: Disabusing the definition of domestic abuse. Florida State University Law Review, Vol. 30, pages 791-855, 2003. Accessible at: http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawr.../304/kelly.pdf ]

* Women are three times more likely than men to use weapons in spousal violence.
Drew Bass is a 6’-3”, 350 lbs former commando & a victim of domestic violence. Twice, Drew’s wife tried to run him down with a car, & on numerous other occasions, she poisoned his food. Women usually use weapons, or poisons or strike when men are asleep to even the odds.

"Violence by Intimates Analysis of Data on Crimes by Current or Former Spouses, Boyfriends, and Girlfriends". US Department of Justice. Retrieved 2010-09-10.


* Women initiate most incidents of spousal violence.
*The U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention report, "In non reciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases. Reciprocity was associated w/ more frequent violence among women, but not men.”[Source: Whitaker, Haileyesus, Swahn & Saltzman, Differences in Frequency of Violence & Reported Injury Between
Relationships W/ Reciprocal & Nonreciprocal Intimate Partner Violence, American Journal of Public Health, May 2007, Vol.
97, No. 5, pp. 941-947
*In a representative sample of 2,603 women & 2,105 men it was found that 37% of the men & 35% of women inflicted some form of physical aggression, while 39% of the men & 32% of the women received some form of physical aggression.)-White, J. W., & Koss, M. P. (1991). Courtship violence: Incidence in a national sample of higher education students. Violence and
Victims, 6, 247-256.


* Women commit most child abuse and most elder abuse.
*Women are more likely to commit major physical abuse of their children than are men. (56.8% to 43.3% respectively).-RADAR report.
*Child Sexual Abuse is 40% more likely to occur in single-mother households. -David Finkelhor Family Research Laboratory.
*94% of sexually abused youth in correctional facilities reported being abused by female staff. From: Sexual Victimization in Juvenile Facilities, 2008-09. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/svjfry09.pdf
*Among inmates reporting staff sexual misconduct, 65% reported a female aggressor. From: Sexual Victimization in Prisons & Jails Reported by Inmates, 2008-09. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/svpjri0809.pdf
*50% of homeless youth reported being sexually abused by a female. From: It’s Not What You Think: Sexually Exploited Youth in British Columbia. http://www.nursing.ubc.ca/PDFs/ItsNotWhatYouThink.pdf

* Women hit their male children more frequently and more severely than they hit their female children.
*According to one Canadian study, boys are 50% more likely to be physically abused by their parents than girls.”-Bernard Chapin (Chapin’s Inferno)

* Women commit most child murders and 64% of their victims are male children.
Still looking for this one.

* When women murder adults the majority of their victims are men.

* When women murder adults the majority of their victims are men.
Not sure where you got that one. Sounds likely to me though, given the DV stats & the fact men are the majority of homicide & abuse victims.
*Men are 76% of homicide victims-DOJ
*Murder rate of men is 4X that of women. Assault rate of men is 8X that of women.-(US Statistical Abstract, 1992)

So I am going to remove this on the website. It is not clear and by its wording it is not factual.

* Women commit 52% of spousal killings and are convicted of 41% of spousal murders.

Still hunting for this information.

* Eighty two percent of the general population had their first experience of violence at the hands of women.

Still hunting for this information however there is a good talk on this with Girl Writes What.

LOL

According to 'The League of Terrified Men' this epidemic of violence by women is the biggest scourge on society. Somehow in my 52 years on this planet, I've bucked the overwhelming odds and not been a victim of physical abuse by a monstrous woman.

I love this 'stat' the most.

* Eighty two percent of the general population had their first experience of violence at the hands of women.

"My Mommy punished me!"