I would be inclined to buy what you are selling if fat people weren't so common. Gamblers, alcoholics, and drug addict probably do get treated better because they aren't all around you every day like fat people. Like I said before I sympathize with those who have real medical conditions and mental issues but there's no way you will ever convince me otherwise that the majority are simply living a poor lifestyle by choice.
This generation is so coddled honestly what ever happened to manning up and accepting things in your life? I can guarantee that there are few on these boards that had a worse childhood than me. I was beaten with belts, hockey sticks, tennis racquets, suffered a through a horrible, messy, violent parental divorce where the four kids were separated (2 with each parent), etc. and yeah I was a problem teen but in my early 20's I manned up and made a decision to get my life straight and it's been clear sailing ever since. I don't look back at anything and feel sorry for myself or regret anything. I realize that it's not as easy for some people as it is for others to stop feeling sorry for themselves and moving on but I don't buy that most people don't have the mental fortitude to break free of their addictions. It's a matter of really, really wanting it. If you can't stop eating it's likely because deep down inside you don't want to.
Everything is easy now. If you have a condition there is a medication for it and there are hundreds of studies that show what you have is a medical condition that hundreds of other people have. We've really become great at making excuses for everyone's issues like it's supposed to be comforting that the problem you have is common and lots of people have it. It makes it all too easy now to simply accept your problems. Sure lots of people have serotonin imbalances and medication helps but man it's like half the population is on antidepressents. If you are depressed because of your life situation and medication makes you not worry about it the root cause of your issues still exist and you are never going to move past it being artificially blocked from caring about it. We have become great at diagnosing the problems but terrible at coming up with real solutions outside of masking the problems with drugs. A lot of times the answers are within and it's up to the individual to make the hard decisions and sacrifices. Everyone has personal issues and the difference between the weak and the strong is that the strong chooses to be strong and deal with their issues.
Sorry for your suffering at a young age, and have managed to succeed in spite of it. Unfortunately, not all are possessed with your strength and ability, and perhaps should be given more slack because of it.
I agree that the increasing incidence of obesity in society would suggest there is something more happening, apart from those who suffer from real medical conditions and mental issues. I would suggest it is related to many problems with our NA culture, one of which you touched on i.e. being over medicated.
I agree that the increasing incidence of obesity in society would suggest there is something more happening, apart from those who suffer from real medical conditions and mental issues. I would suggest it is related to many problems with our NA culture, one of which you touched on i.e. being over medicated.
Absoluetly. Overmedication, emergence of synthetic foods, over reliance on automobiles, advent of computers/internet, home theatre, etc. Simply too many reasons not to get out and exercise and convienience and oversaturation of fast food establishments. However it boils down to personal lifestyle and choice. You can still choose to exercise and eat better but it's the harder route and we know that it human nature to look for the path of least resistance.
I have been working out for 15 years straight now never taking a week off in between except for business or illness. A lot of people will say to that; "good for you but not everyone has that dedication" and to that I say; "exactly". If you can't dedicate yourself to your body and well being I have to question your priorities. You only get one life and there's no do-over for slowly killing yourself due to living an unhealthy lifestyle.
I'm human like everyone else. I have an enormous appetite and could eat all day if I could but I don't. I can say no to seconds even when my stomach and brain are telling me I'm still hungry. I can still go to the gym even when I'm feeling lazy and my body and brain start making excuses not to go. It's not easy and I'm not saying that I'm better than people that don't have discipline but I'm saying that most people can do it. You just have to really want it. Just saying it isn't the same and anytime you start something hard the easiest thing to do is quit and say you can't do it but I'm not special. If I can do it most people can.
Last edited by Erick Estrada; 07-06-2012 at 01:13 PM.
Sorry for your suffering at a young age, and have managed to succeed in spite of it.
I don't look at any of it as suffering as I know well that there are millions of people over the years and generations that had it much, much worse than me. I look at it as an obstacle in life that made me better. Helped make me the man I am today. Still flawed of course lol but I'm always aware of what I could have been and that motivates me to stay on the straight and narrow and make the right decisions.
That is such a crock of crap. If you're saying every alcoholic/drug addict was born an addict and didn't end up that way through their own choices, I don't really know what to say. Some did, but not every person did.
Because alcohol is made available in almost every grocery store in the states. As is tobacco.
An analysis of prime time TV found that alcohol commercials appeared at the rate of 0.2 per hour while drinking portrayals during programs occured 25 times more frequently, at five times per hour.
Just because HFCS is so prevalently out there it doesn't negate the responsibility to pay attention to what you eat. I don't ever hear people trying to quit smoking blaming the prevalence of cigarettes on the fact they're made so available (less now than prior). If I were to give smokers any sort of credit is they usually accept their involvement in the issue. "It's a disgusting habit and I should have never started and I want to quit but I've got to little willpower". Not "the smoking industry lied to us".
I think a lot of the prejudice towards overweight people is because a lot of them act like it's not their fault. Yeah yeah, I'm sure there's plenty that have actual issues (physical, non-curable) that result in them being obese. But the self esteem issues, depression issues, etc, welcome to the world of EVERYONE. Yeah, it's hard to get over some of these issues, or to get started exercising when you're 400 lbs. I don't thing anyone is saying otherwise. But stupid people are always going to hate/laugh/mock so the faster one learns to live with it the better.
Clearly Devils Advocate had something he needed to deal with. Holy F, he did a kick ass job, dealt with some of them, unfortunately may continue to deal with them, but has knocked the overweight issue out of the friggin ball park. If anything he's proof that plenty of obese need to stop blaming a plethora of things and move on with their lives and start taking responsibility.
I've got countless things I need to do with myself. Some that are bordering on being so much more important than much else in my life and I put them off. I blame myself because I'm a procrastinator and lazy. Not some ghost HFCS industry that's in cahoots with the government (yes, that's an extreme exageration).
BTW, loved the Eat Less Move More video. That was awesome!
About alcohol... Well, yeah, except for the fact that, you know, you need to eat food to survive. I mean, the comparison is not fair: of course alcohol is readily available everywhere, as cigarettes are (and of course there's a lobby behind them too), but 1/ you don't need to buy them for your whole family every week, 2/ they're more expensive than food, and 3/ they're a whole category of stuff that can notoriously be bad for you. But food is a whole other problem: people need to buy it, often on a budget, and they have to figure out which is better for them. (And the last part gets trickier than it seems once you add HFCS in food behind their backs). Put all three parts together, and it becomes hard for some people; I'm not saying that it's unsolvable, but you need to think about it for a bit, and some people just don't do it (lack of time, money, personal issues, or brainpower).
I think we just have two different approaches to the problem. You say that people should just stop being lazy and get out of their way to be careful about what they eat, and so it's their fault if they are struggling with it or not trying cause it's hard. I say that people have always been lazy and that it's unrealistic to think that you can change that; but you can change the path of least resistance for people by acting against what shapes society in a bad way, and it's much more effective.
So yeah, in a way it's the people's fault if they're lazy; problem is, they're not doing anything different that everyone has done in the last thousands of years. The difference to me, the one that made the obesity rate go up in the last three decades, is that the rules of the game changed: more cars (less forced exercise), food prices falling hard (making fast food a viable option for a lot of people), food subsidies skewed by industry lobbying (making the wrong kind of foods very affordable), flavor engineering (engineering the taste of anything to get you hooked), incredible increase in marketing spending (saturating media with any information that's good for consumption, not people), mega-corporations gone international (huge spending power and brands as part of popular culture everyone knows and love), etc, etc.
So you can always say that people are lazy and they should know better, but I don't think there's ever been a time where all people went out of their way to do something because they know it's better for them in the long run. Rather, people have always been inherently less motivated by long-term hypothetical rewards, the difference is that society changed to make being fat incredibly easy, which is why the obesity rate is so high. You can try to expect a surge of willpower among people (or moan about it not happening), but my money is on shaping society so that the best choices are made the easiest...
I would be inclined to buy what you are selling if fat people weren't so common. Gamblers, alcoholics, and drug addict probably do get treated better because they aren't all around you every day like fat people. Like I said before I sympathize with those who have real medical conditions and mental issues but there's no way you will ever convince me otherwise that the majority are simply living a poor lifestyle by choice.
This generation is so coddled honestly what ever happened to manning up and accepting things in your life? I can guarantee that there are few on these boards that had a worse childhood than me. I was beaten with belts, hockey sticks, tennis racquets, suffered a through a horrible, messy, violent parental divorce where the four kids were separated (2 with each parent), etc. and yeah I was a problem teen but in my early 20's I manned up and made a decision to get my life straight and it's been clear sailing ever since. I don't look back at anything and feel sorry for myself or regret anything. I realize that it's not as easy for some people as it is for others to stop feeling sorry for themselves and moving on but I don't buy that most people don't have the mental fortitude to break free of their addictions. It's a matter of really, really wanting it. If you can't stop eating it's likely because deep down inside you don't want to.
Everything is easy now. If you have a condition there is a medication for it and there are hundreds of studies that show what you have is a medical condition that hundreds of other people have. We've really become great at making excuses for everyone's issues like it's supposed to be comforting that the problem you have is common and lots of people have it. It makes it all too easy now to simply accept your problems. Sure lots of people have serotonin imbalances and medication helps but man it's like half the population is on antidepressents. If you are depressed because of your life situation and medication makes you not worry about it the root cause of your issues still exist and you are never going to move past it being artificially blocked from caring about it. We have become great at diagnosing the problems but terrible at coming up with real solutions outside of masking the problems with drugs. A lot of times the answers are within and it's up to the individual to make the hard decisions and sacrifices. Everyone has personal issues and the difference between the weak and the strong is that the strong chooses to be strong and deal with their issues.
I'm calling bull#### on that one. Sorry to say that, but I'm not sure that you know the reality of psychological problems: it's not just a matter of "dealing with it or being a wuss" as you say. And it seems like your concept of "dealing with it" is just "making the problem disappear", which is not helpful; how do you just make a problem that's been with you for years disappear magically?
That's why a lot of people go to therapy: they just can't figure out how to make the problem disappear, how to think differently, how to ignore the problem or find a key to unlock it and let it go. Sometimes therapy is enough to realize why you were doing something and what it means to you, and how you can change your ways.
But then there's psychological diseases, which include stuff that have only been diagnosed for a few decades including anorexia, bulimia, and other nasty stuff; in a lot of cases the person just cannot find a way to think differently, to wire his brain in a different way that's not hurting him. Take an example: say you have a good, stable life, eating normally, but you have an eating disorder: how do you avoid feeling guilty about eating anything, every meal, for years? And trust me, you do want to get out of that kind of diseases. For those kind of stuff, if thinking about it doesn't help changing your ways, the therapist gives you pills: that makes you stop worrying about it, and sometimes it's enough for a person to feel like that for a while to be able to reconstruct himself a nice, clean, functional ego. That's how pills work: sometimes all that people need is a break from their psychological #### to be able to let it go. It's not about changing anything in your life or your situation, just being able to build yourself a new way to think about things and embrace it; it's not about courage or "manning up", it's about discovering how to change.
And yeah, there's a ton of diagnoses more than a hundred years ago; that's not people being wusses, that's psychology advancing and figuring out stuff what people do that are hurting them. People are actually suffering psychologically; nobody lowered the threshold of pain needed to go see a doctor about it, it's just that before people suffered in silence. There's also the fact that our society's worries are much different than a hundred years ago: no food scarcity, no war, no dictatorship, everything changing at an incredibly fast pace, a society more focused on the individuals' social role and the fear of being left out. So you get a ton of psychological diseases that make people genuinely suffer that you've never heard of before (for instance, porn addiction, which is a real thing recognized more and more by psychologists, that can cause depression and erectile dysfunction).
Please don't assume that people are weaker than they used to be, and don't assume you can magically "man up" out of stuff that real doctors say you need antidepressants to overcome.
Well good. That actually helps. I was wondering why the hell I am hungry ALL THE TIME. I know an alcoholic says that they go day by day, fighting each day, thinking each day about wanting to have a drink. And that's how I feel about food. The hard part is that I have to have SOME food in the house.... but every time I pass the kitchen area I have to fight like hell with myself not to grab a snack.
As it says you have to be absolutely neurotic about it. If the cravings are getting too bad, I'll go to a movie theatre. And if there is one force in me stronger than my compulsion to eat, it's my OCD not to pay theatre prices for food. If I have had a particularly bad week, I'll visit friends in Toronto where on the Greyhound bus there I have no access to food.
We've been told that they are letting 1/3rd of us go at work. My biggest fear? Not not having a job. But if I am unemployed, I'll be at home all day and I'll pass the kitchen more often. And I won't be able to afford going to the movies, taking trips away from home, etc.. so there will be no escape.
One thing I do have going for me is that i can exercise A LOT. I ran 30km on Sunday, 21 on Wednesday and 21 again this morning. I just did 30 minutes on the elliptical and am going down to do 40 on the bike. Yet despite that, my weight has been creeping up. My doctor set my goal weight at 170. I got down to 162. And in the last 6 months I've gained a pound per month, so I'm now at 168, quite close to what my doctor set for me... but the worry is that if I'm gaining 1 pound per month, I'm heading back the wrong road.
But at least, by reading that article, I am comforted to know that it's not just me that is struggling THIS MUCH... and that it's not just me being weak, but my body fighting back against the weight loss.
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Well good. That actually helps. I was wondering why the hell I am hungry ALL THE TIME. I know an alcoholic says that they go day by day, fighting each day, thinking each day about wanting to have a drink. And that's how I feel about food. The hard part is that I have to have SOME food in the house.... but every time I pass the kitchen area I have to fight like hell with myself not to grab a snack.
As it says you have to be absolutely neurotic about it. If the cravings are getting too bad, I'll go to a movie theatre. And if there is one force in me stronger than my compulsion to eat, it's my OCD not to pay theatre prices for food. If I have had a particularly bad week, I'll visit friends in Toronto where on the Greyhound bus there I have no access to food.
We've been told that they are letting 1/3rd of us go at work. My biggest fear? Not not having a job. But if I am unemployed, I'll be at home all day and I'll pass the kitchen more often. And I won't be able to afford going to the movies, taking trips away from home, etc.. so there will be no escape.
One thing I do have going for me is that i can exercise A LOT. I ran 30km on Sunday, 21 on Wednesday and 21 again this morning. I just did 30 minutes on the elliptical and am going down to do 40 on the bike. Yet despite that, my weight has been creeping up. My doctor set my goal weight at 170. I got down to 162. And in the last 6 months I've gained a pound per month, so I'm now at 168, quite close to what my doctor set for me... but the worry is that if I'm gaining 1 pound per month, I'm heading back the wrong road.
But at least, by reading that article, I am comforted to know that it's not just me that is struggling THIS MUCH... and that it's not just me being weak, but my body fighting back against the weight loss.
Jesus. Good luck DA! Sounds like torture.
Do you eat extremely well? Seems like a lot of exercise to be gaining weight still.
Maybe switch up running for swimming or trail runs. Or start doing some interval training. Changing up what you're doing is often key. Given the distances you're likely quite used to running now. You probably know all that - but it's worth mentioning. Swimming is sometimes incredibly good for keeping off the weight if you're new to it. Basically your upper body doesn't have aerobic capacity like your legs. It's not used to, or designed for aerobic activity. So if you're not used to it it'll burn a ton of calories and exhaust you quite a bit. That said, I GOBBLE up food everytime after I swim, especailly if I havent been swimming a lot. Nothing seems to fill you up. So that might not help.
Interval training - start working some pacework into your running. Get your heart rate way up for stretches at a time. Do 1km or 2km intervals at a race pace. Do something like 6x1km or 8x1km and the next week 4x2km or 5x2km sets at a hard pace.
Again, you might already do that
Also lift weights (might already do that).
Join crossfit. That'll change your routine a ton (granted I'm not big on crossfit, just know it's a drastic change from what a lot of people do).
Try p90x or insanity.
Good luck! Don't worry to much about the tough times. Most people have them.
One thing I do have going for me is that i can exercise A LOT. I ran 30km on Sunday, 21 on Wednesday and 21 again this morning. I just did 30 minutes on the elliptical and am going down to do 40 on the bike. Yet despite that, my weight has been creeping up. My doctor set my goal weight at 170. I got down to 162. And in the last 6 months I've gained a pound per month, so I'm now at 168, quite close to what my doctor set for me... but the worry is that if I'm gaining 1 pound per month, I'm heading back the wrong road.
But at least, by reading that article, I am comforted to know that it's not just me that is struggling THIS MUCH... and that it's not just me being weak, but my body fighting back against the weight loss.
You considered that it is partially muscle mass?
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Do you eat extremely well? Seems like a lot of exercise to be gaining weight still.
Maybe switch up running for swimming or trail runs. Or start doing some interval training. Changing up what you're doing is often key. Given the distances you're likely quite used to running now. You probably know all that - but it's worth mentioning. Swimming is sometimes incredibly good for keeping off the weight if you're new to it. Basically your upper body doesn't have aerobic capacity like your legs. It's not used to, or designed for aerobic activity. So if you're not used to it it'll burn a ton of calories and exhaust you quite a bit.
Yes, I am eating far more than I should. Like I said, I constantly feel like I need a snack.
Funny that you mention swimming. I was losing the weight when I was swimming 1.5h 3x week. I quit because Ottawa budget cuts slashed bus routes, making it hard to get to the pool. That's when I started gaining weight back. Maybe I should force myself to take the trip out.
But I know I have to stop eating 3000 calories per day. Even with the exercise, it's hard to maintain any kind of reasonable weight eating that much food.
Considered. I went to Toronto 2 or 3 months ago for a DEXA scan that came back with 15% body fat. Which isn't great... but not horrible. I'd have to go back to TO and get another scan to see if that is increasing or decreasing.
Experts say the survey highlights how society’s view of what’s considered “normal” body weight is changing. We think a bigger weight is normal, said Dr. Sean Wharton, an internal medicine specialist.
“Average probably means to them that they feel that they’re not in the overweight or obese category, but clearly most people are,” Wharton said.
“We collectively as a nation don’t tell the truth on our driver’s licence,” said Dr. David Lau, professor of medicine at the University of Calgary. “We’re two inches taller and five pounds lighter.”
We use other people as our frame of reference, “so when you look around and everybody’s rotund, we don’t consider ourselves overweight, because we’re no different than our neighbour or the people we work with,” Lau said.
Considered. I went to Toronto 2 or 3 months ago for a DEXA scan that came back with 15% body fat. Which isn't great... but not horrible. I'd have to go back to TO and get another scan to see if that is increasing or decreasing.
15% is great. A lot of people lie about their BF%. There are a ton of people saying they are 10% or below. That kind of BF% is Brad Pitt in Fight Club. Around 15% is totally normal and healthy. A lot of people who go below 10% don't maintain that either. They dip below for a few months for a picture/show/summer then go back to the 12% range.
Here's a picture of 15%, I wouldn't consider this person obese in any way:
15% is great. A lot of people lie about their BF%. There are a ton of people saying they are 10% or below. That kind of BF% is Brad Pitt in Fight Club. Around 15% is totally normal and healthy. A lot of people who go below 10% don't maintain that either. They dip below for a few months for a picture/show/summer then go back to the 12% range.
Here's a picture of 15%, I wouldn't consider this person obese in any way:
Experts say the survey highlights how society’s view of what’s considered “normal” body weight is changing. We think a bigger weight is normal, said Dr. Sean Wharton, an internal medicine specialist.
“Average probably means to them that they feel that they’re not in the overweight or obese category, but clearly most people are,” Wharton said.
“We collectively as a nation don’t tell the truth on our driver’s licence,” said Dr. David Lau, professor of medicine at the University of Calgary. “We’re two inches taller and five pounds lighter.”
We use other people as our frame of reference, “so when you look around and everybody’s rotund, we don’t consider ourselves overweight, because we’re no different than our neighbour or the people we work with,” Lau said.
I think it's presumptuous for them to assume that just because someone's weight is average that they don't realize that it puts them as technically overweight or obese. Maybe they know and they just don't care, or they have more important things to worry about. And by definition normal is "1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural. 2. serving to establish a standard." So maybe weights are going up, but that doesn't mean it's wrong for people to consider themselves as normal.
Aside from the fact that you seem to find it offensive for someone to be overweight or obese, what is really wrong with it? Why is being overweight or obese inherently a bad thing when there's research that's been done that says that people who are overweight are more likely to live longer, and people who are obese are about the same as those who are of "normal" weight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcsoda
"Compared to people who fell into the normal-weight category:
Those classified as underweight were 73% more likely to die.
Those classified as extremely obese with BMI of 35 or greater were 36% more likely to die.
Those classified as obese with BMI 30-34.9 had about the same risk of death.
Those classified as overweight with BMI 25-29.9 were 17% less likely to die."
Also, I don't see why it's relevant that people lie on their drivers license. There's such a stigma on being seen as overweight that it's natural to lie to try to avoid or decrease judgement. Also, my driver's license says I weigh less than I do because every time I renew my license they don't bother to change it. I even pointed out once that I was 10lbs heavier and the lady said it didn't matter and never bothered to change it, so it may not even be a case of lying at all.
If I have had a particularly bad week, I'll visit friends in Toronto where on the Greyhound bus there I have no access to food. 
