I'm a Baby-Stroller Shopper, and I want to ask anything...

[Ace]

Originally Posted by Russic

With respect, that seems insane. Since the beginning of the "back is best" movement and people realizing second hand smoke is harmful, SIDS rates have dropped heavily. Your source says that sleeping position and cigarette smoke have no impact.

It's not my "source", I have no vested interest in this theory. If you read all the details the reason that the back sleeping works in conjunction with this theory is that the baby is breathing further away from the mattress since this "toxic gas" is coming from a combination of elements in the mattress. If you remove the toxins then sleeping position does not matter.

As a new parent one of the things they told us in "new parenting 101" is that having a fan on reduces SIDS risk. Seems to me that this also supports the toxic gas theory since it keeps the air moving...

It's certainly information worth considering, basically the alternative is to believe there is no causation that is proven and you just leave it up to chance. It was valuable information for me to at least be aware of.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Ace

It's not my "source", I have no vested interest in this theory. If you read all the details the reason that the back sleeping works in conjunction with this theory is that the baby is breathing further away from the mattress since this "toxic gas" is coming from a combination of elements in the mattress. If you remove the toxins then sleeping position does not matter.

As a new parent one of the things they told us in "new parenting 101" is that having a fan on reduces SIDS risk. Seems to me that this also supports the toxic gas theory since it keeps the air moving...

It's certainly information worth considering, basically the alternative is to believe there is no causation that is proven and you just leave it up to chance. It was valuable information for me to at least be aware of.

I suspect the fan helps more by providing more oxygen. I read through some of that website out of curiosity - my professional opinion based on a casual read is that it's nonsense. All the talk about a "cover up" and how the medical establishment is ignoring this important work is pretty much a giveaway even without the rather shaky attempt to build a scientific case.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Russic

With respect, that seems insane.

It is. I love this part:

The finding of the rising risk of cot death from one sibling to the next refutes every proposition that cot death has a medical cause. The more times an unwrapped mattress is used from one baby to the next, the greater is the risk of cot death.

So the rate of a particular mattress being involved in a SIDS incident increases with the number of kids that have slept on it? No kidding! Two kids = x2 as likely a SIDS event will occur. Three kids raises your odds threefold! OMG

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The only thing I'm deathly afraid of is not being able to travel as much. I'm a total bore, so I don't really go out to bars anymore anyway, but I definitely love to travel.

Wouldn't worry much about that especially under 2 years old when you don't need to buy a plane ticket.

My daughter who is not yet 6 has been to Boston about 20 times (company I used to work for had the head office there). Germany twice (her last birthday was at Europa park in Rust...that's a tough one to top), France, all over the states and canada etc. My son (4 years old) missed out on most of the boston trips but not the others.

If you want to continue travelling you'll do so.

Strollers. The only thing I can recommend is getting a good quality one that fits the life style. If you or your wife like to run, make sure you get a proper jogging stroller. You may even want one if you don't jog as they are easier to push and maneuver (though I can't say I've seen one for a newborn that clips in the car seat).

Car seat. Quite a bit will depend on the car you have and will be using most of the time. I recommend one that you fix the base into the car and clip the seat on just for ease of use. But which one to pick may be determined by the room you have in that back seat. Not even thinking about this, the first one we bought for out daughter couldn't actually fit in the car safely (Mazda 3) with the seats placed in any sort of comfortable position. Neither the driver side, passenger side or middle. Also note the child weights and lengths the seat is good for as a couple of them you may be replacing really quickly if you have a long kid. Graduation to different types of car seats and then booster seats are set out by state and provincial governments. They are not all the same.

breathing monitors....I'd probably overrule the wife get one if I did it all again. Can't tell you how many times I peaked in to make sure the kids were still breathing. Honestly, every now and again I still peak in.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Ace

If your looking at breathing monitors, I have this and it is IMO the best invention ever. Easy to travel with you, and works great.

http://www.amazon.com/Snuza-Halo-Bab.../dp/B002ITOC7S

As For SIDS, this is the best theory I have ever seen on SIDS...at least some science behind it:

http://www.cotlife2000.com/

What did I just read? Why do I feel like I need to look over my shoulder for G-men? Am I on some sort of Government Watch list now?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by ernie

Wouldn't worry much about that especially under 2 years old when you don't need to buy a plane ticket.

My daughter who is not yet 6 has been to Boston about 20 times (company I used to work for had the head office there). Germany twice (her last birthday was at Europa park in Rust...that's a tough one to top), France, all over the states and canada etc. My son (4 years old) missed out on most of the boston trips but not the others.

If you want to continue travelling you'll do so.

Honestly, this is great to read. I always told myself we'll let the baby adapt to our habits as opposed to the other way around, but it's nice to see other people doing all that successfully. I have a feeling the more you travel with a kid, the more ok they are with it.

Also, finally I get to pay back all that jackasses who's crying babies kept me up whenever I was flying! At least I get to be the jackass now.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Also, finally I get to pay back all that jackasses who's crying babies kept me up whenever I was flying! At least I get to be the jackass now.

When you have a kid you'll quickly find that the crying baby on the flight is not the biggest jackass on the plane. Though I've never had an issue with babies on planes. They're babies who do baby stuff, as long as the parents are doing what they can there is no harm IMO.

Now the guy sitting next to me with his headphones blaring so I can hear everything even with my own headphones on or behind me who doesn't have the ability to stand up without pulling on my seat or the loud talking idiots who think everyone wants to hear their views on everything....those people I have a problem with.

But you're right, adapt the baby more to your lifestyle (within reason of course. The baby likely isn't interested in a midnight trip to the strippers. I also recommend having a schedule as it will help down the road). Kids haven't changed how we do things other than having to include more people into our hobbies and past times.

Just remember to give yourselves some off time. Give the wife a night or two off a week to do whatever she wants especially the first 6 months to a year as she'll need that time off. When the kid gets older begin to take your night off. My night "off" is Wednesday night to go play hockey. Saturday morning I play hockey while she brings the kids to swimming. She gets tuesday and thursday night off for PiYo. I bring them for karate on the Tuesday. Not only does that give you some downtime away from the kids you also schedule in quality time with just the kids (also do special things with the kids individually when you can. I have a standing date alternating Sunday mornings where I take one of the kids to breakfast. Just the two of us.). Every couple of weeks we get a babysitter and go for dinner and a movie.

Maybe we're odd but we haven't found kids all that stressful or detrimental to our way of life. Quite the opposite.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by ernie

within reason of course. The baby likely isn't interested in a midnight trip to the strippers.

But there's nothing babies are interested in more than breasts! A room full of them must be baby nirvana.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Table 5

But there's nothing babies are interested in more than breasts! A room full of them must be baby nirvana.

Its everybody's nirvana.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Honestly, this is great to read. I always told myself we'll let the baby adapt to our habits as opposed to the other way around, but it's nice to see other people doing all that successfully. I have a feeling the more you travel with a kid, the more ok they are with it.

Also, finally I get to pay back all that jackasses who's crying babies kept me up whenever I was flying! At least I get to be the jackass now.

If travelling is something you love to do, you'll find a way. Parenting is a hell of thing. There isn't an instruction manual or a set list of behaviours for you to follow... you basically stumble around in the dark until you find a path that works for you. Every parent you'll ever talk to has their system and they'll want to tell you how it is, but focus more on how you want to do things.

For instance, I'm not a big traveller. If we had a chat I'd probably tell you that travelling with kids is a top 3 source of aggravation in my life, but don't let my opinion bother you. I have several friends who have found trips with their kids to be among their favourite experiences as parents.

[Russic]

My biggest fear in life is that by the time I'm able to sleep in again I'll be too old to even do it successfully.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by fotze

It is a fine line of making the baby 'adapt to your life'. The travelling thing is one thing, but we have friends whose kids stay up as late as they do, going to the same social events to 1 am, eat at non-structured times like a single person would. Absolute nightmare kids. They are the type of people who came from big families and mayhem at home is par for the course.

Yeah i edited in that part. I highly recommend a structured schedule. It helps. i know most everyone we know wonders how we can possibly send our kids to bed when we do (7ish for the 4 year old, near 6 year old is about a half hour later). The answer is simple. My kids do actually sleep for 10-11 hours at night so they clearly need it if it is available to them and because of that they don't just collapse randomly somewhere. They also tend to be much better behaved in public because a rested kid is a kid that listens (also a kid that learns better).

But at the same time, don't judge how others go about raising the kids, no matter how much you want to. It all probably doesn't make as much of a difference as we think.

Oops I judged! Ah well I'm human. I just don't understand some parents.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by fotze

Do you have good relatives/babysitters? That helps alot (i've heard). We just spent our first consecutive nights away from the kids in 7 years. I am the opposite, I found the kid thing (at the beginning) quite stressful and unpleasant. I wasn't wired for raising babies. Comes with the territory of being high strung.

Our closest relatives are about 1500 miles away. But through work friends and neighbours we have a roster of about 4 or 5 really good babysitters. A couple of which we have no issues leaving the kids with for a weekend.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by fotze

It is a fine line of making the baby 'adapt to your life'. The travelling thing is one thing, but we have friends whose kids stay up as late as they do, going to the same social events to 1 am, eat at non-structured times like a single person would. Absolute nightmare kids. They are the type of people who came from big families and mayhem at home is par for the course.

Yeah, I meant that in the traveling sense only. Clearly there's going to have to be a pretty big adjustment on our part as well. There's no way I'm raising some "best-friend" type of child. After seeing all the snotty little unruly kids out there, I'm kind of looking forward to the challenge of raising a good person.

Having said that, kids seem to adapt pretty well, so I'm not sure you have to make the whole world a giant bubble for them. I remember when my family went through a lot of turmoil when I was kid, and us kids took it all in stride and still had a great time. I actually kind of look back at a lot of those times pretty fondly.

[Locke]

Just remember: Be a Tyrant.

[Russic]

To piggy-back on what ernie is saying, in my experience if you do have a structure/routine for the kids, it's much easier to jolt them out of it from time to time (ex. for a trip). Fotze's right, generally kids who stay up late and follow a fluctuating schedule are insufferable. If a parent wants to go that route (and some of my good friends are in that category) I say go for it. I'd just rather not hang out with their kids for an extended period of time.

[Ace]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

It is. I love this part:


So the rate of a particular mattress being involved in a SIDS incident increases with the number of kids that have slept on it? No kidding! Two kids = x2 as likely a SIDS event will occur. Three kids raises your odds threefold! OMG

I really don't care about this theory enough to defend, i'm certainly far from stating it's fact...other than it is an interesting theory.

But to clarify the claim above, he is stating that the 2nd child has a higher chance of SIDS than the first, and the third even more - based on some research I have never read. If that is indeed true then the point of this argument is that some factor must exist that causes the risk rate to rise (in this case more fungus in the mattress over time), especially since each child should have the same risk factor in theory. I didn't read it as: "the risks of that particular mattress being involved in an incident increases". I could be wrong.

One could argue that parents are less attentive for a 2nd or third child, or some other reason like more kids around = more hazards...regardless of the cause if the stats do indicate that the risk is greater for 2nd and third children then that is certainly interesting.

[Titan]

A pretty adamant condemnation of the Baby Bjorn above. I would have to disagree. We used one for both kids and they are fine. You don't want a newborn front facing obviously but when they are ready they loved it. We also had the "step up" one where there was more support. I find it hard to believe it is as bad as stated above.

[Table 5]

Yeah, I remember seeing everyone using those Baby Bjorns (and making fun of them for it at the time ) and considering how much research parents seem to put into these things these days (ie. like me) its hard to think it would be so unsafe. But I'm willing to listen...I clearly don't know jack about any of this.

[fredr123]

We've got a five year old, three year old and 10 month old. We also have four strollers and none of them, I think, have been ideal.

The first one we got was the Graco combo dealie that came with the bucket and the base that goes in the car. It worked great when we only had one kid, but it was really bulky and took up most of the trunk of our car.

We got a small umbrella stroller when we were on vacation and the kid was a bit older. It did fine for short trips, but was much less comfortable and not as convenient for storage or for letting the kid nap.

When the second kid came along, we got a Joovy Sit n Stand. It's probably the best of the bunch. The bucket seat clipped into the front when the youngest needed it and still had a spot for our oldest to sit. It was lighter than the Graco monster and actually took up less room in the trunk. It had a lot of storage too and handled pretty well. As far as double strollers go, it did very well at the mall and on walks outside provided you stayed on the beaten path.

We also have a double jogging/bike stroller made by Bell or something that kind of looks like a Chariot. It's clearly not a Chariot. We got it second hand so the price was right and, for how much we use it, it works well enough for long walks/jogs and off road. It's too wide and bulky to use in a mall or anything like that though.