Cop gets 20-day sentence for sex with girl, 15

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

At what age should everyone stop sleeping with children or recent children? All seems very black and white to you. As soon as you turn 18? I suppose you were completely fine with Marcus Dixon getting 10 years in jail for sleeping with a 16 yo when he was 18?

You talk about this girl like she was some pure, sixteen year old virgin, who is devastated about what this cop took from her. From reading the article, I don't see anything to suggest that she even regretted or was upset about having sex with him. Seemed like she had been kind of bragging about it. I see nothing to suggest that she thought of that night any differently than any other encounters she may have had. She wasn't the one reporting the cop, it was her friend trying to rat out the cop when she got busted for something else. I would actually guess she is more upset about what happened to the cop than about what he did to her.

But the law's the law, and he broke it. He got what seems like an appropriate sentence.

The ambiguity of situations that arise as young people become legal adults is 100% irrelevant to a 39 year old man raping a 15 year old.

I talk like she's a child because she is one. This has nothing to do with how the girl acted. It's 100% the fault of the rapist as rape always is.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

The ambiguity of situations that arise as young people become legal adults is 100% irrelevant to a 39 year old man raping a 15 year old.

I talk like she's a child because she is one. This has nothing to do with how the girl acted. It's 100% the fault of the rapist as rape always is.

It wasn't rape; it was statutory rape.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Don't make the mistake of considering those of a younger age simply "little adults". There is enough scientific material out there for your perusal that shows the differences in brain development at certain ages.

The better question, I feel, would be to ask do you consider her an adult? If you define an adult as having a fully mature brain -- both the intellectual and emotional portions -- then, no, a 16 year old, male or female, would not be considered an adult.

Some links: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0803153121.htm

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-fml090406.php

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...ves-first.html

There are plenty more out there, probably more interesting to read than the ones I linked.

Im aware of the brain aspect of this debate, but like Knasus has pointed out if we decided on a point where the brain had reached what we consider adult maturity where most of the crazy changes teens deal with is over, you would be aiming around 21-25yrs old.

Now of course you are not going to change drinking laws, driving laws, and all kinds of laws based around that science right?

My problem I guess is with the difficulty of not only the science, but the social standards and morality that is huge in this discussion.

You argue that 15 is too young to make a decision for sex with anyone over 18, I would agree in principle because we have to draw lines somewhere legality speaking *as long as judges have leeway here*..

However at 16 she can drive a car, in some countries drink, work fulltime, travel unaccompanied, etc..

These are also adult issues that teens are trusted with, I find people are very much ok with teens being given a drivers license even though this is riddled with danger and responsibility that often is not taken seriously enough by many young drivers.

I think with cases like this our outrage is because of our father instinct as men. I think we can all agree (the men) our angry reaction to this story is imagining this as our daughter, and of course our desire to then hurt this guy badly for what he did.

Yet we reverse this story, make it a 15yr old boy with a 38yr old woman and things dramatically change.

My niece who spent 45 days in Athens modelling was pretty much unsupervised for a good portion of it, travelling with other young european girls going to castings, modelling shoots, being invited to bars, yacht trips, etc..

I thought about how this situation in Canada would have been dramatically different than how its treated in EU. Her mother went with her for the first 5 days to be sure she was in a safe place under good people who would watch out for her, but then left and my niece had an amazing experience and handled it with great maturity and intelligence.

Deciding what teenagers can decide for themselves and handle isn't cut and dry. By asking questions here about this case I'm probably labeled a pedophile or something horrible by some. I understand the anger, but you have to try to look at this stuff with some logic and reason.

That's why judges need the power to enforce the law as the case warrants it, not be forced under mandatory sentencing rules.

Also, just to drive home the point, in the EU this story would not have made the news, in fact in most EU nations unlikely to have drawn the attention of the law. Is that because 16yr olds are given more trust here or is it naivete and way too lax laws?

The better question, I feel, would be to ask do you consider her an adult? If you define an adult as having a fully mature brain -- both the intellectual and emotional portions -- then, no, a 16 year old, male or female, would not be considered an adult.

Brain development wise, no, but I feel the same way about 21yr olds.

Do I think a 16yr old can handle sexual decisions on their own, yes and no. Always depends on a few key factors, the country they live in, the society and morals they grow up with.

For me the stark difference between teenagers in North America in comparison to Iceland is shocking, even after being here for 2 1/2 years. This has a long lost of reasons as to why, if anyone really wants me to go further with my observations I would gladly do so but I'm veering off the topic already enough here.

Just so I'm clear on this particular case, I think the punishment handed by the judge was sufficient, being she was almost at age of consent and he has lost a great deal due to this crime he committed. You could probably convince me he could sit in jail for a few years instead of 20 days, a case can definitely be made, but like with all these news stories we didn't sit in the court room and didn't hear what the judge had to work with so I tend to trust him in his decision over our speculation.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by blankall

16 and 17 year olds are not children. I was in my first year of university at age 17. I think a lot of posters here are forgetting what it was like to be that age, and the kind of things kids at that age do. At 16 and 17, I was totally capable of making my own decision when it came to sex and understanding the consequences. It wasn't even a gray area.

Was a police officer suppossed to come around my dorm room and make sure I wasn't having sex with people I couldn't consent with? The current age of consent of 16 is totally acceptable.

Anyone stating that 16 and 17 year olds aren't capable of making these decisions is living in some kind of puritan fantasy. I wouldn't sleep with someone that young, as I find it reprehensible for moral reasons, however, there's a differnce between acts that are morally unacceptable and those that are criminal.

12 year olds go to university too sometimes. Intelligence does not mean you are an adult.

This is about power dynamics and coercion. A 15 year old does not have a proper grasp of the consequences of their actions. They are easily manipulated and coerced. That's why they can't vote for example.

I think we live in a culture that idolizes and objectifies bodies to the point that people think sex with teenagers is legitimate because they feel like they are naturally compelled to do it. That's bull ####. Sexual complusion is a maladaptive coping mechanism to a society that enforces gender roles and limits self-expression. Sex is about two autonomous and equal individuals sharing intimacy. This idea that men can't keep it in the pants around children should be insulting to all of us.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It wasn't rape; it was statutory rape.

Still rape.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

The ambiguity of situations that arise as young people become legal adults is 100% irrelevant to a 39 year old man raping a 15 year old.

I talk like she's a child because she is one. This has nothing to do with how the girl acted. It's 100% the fault of the rapist as rape always is.

So its rape at 15, and fully legal at 16?

At 15 she can't handle the sexual decision for that consensual encounter so its statutory rape. At 16 she can handle the sexual decision and its just gross and disgusting what he did.

Again I´m not stating a line shouldn't be picked, I just argue the courts need to have the power of deciding on a case by case basis rather than it being cut and dry as you seem to be advocating here.

What do you think the judge should have done here btw, what ultimately do you think is the proper punishment?

[Lobotroth]

The mechanics of a fully grown male and a still developing teenage girl going at it is kind of disturbing IMO.

[calgaryrocks]

first off, the guy is married with kids so should not be thinking about sleeping with other girls
second off, how long did he know her? sleeping with a girl you barely know is asking for trouble (yea yea I know lots of you do it all the time). if he got to know her and find out what she likes to do or where she goes to school (that she is still young enough to go to school) he would figure out she is way too young for him. a 39 year old.
thirdly, having sex with someone after getting them drunk? as a cop he should know better than that
even if she looked 20, he has no business sleeping with her. also, the girl would be more to blame if he hadn't gotten her drunk, as she shouldn't be sleeping with guys at that age (yes the paternal instinct here) but being a teenager she was probably happy to be having alchohol, and once drunk her inhibitions would be decreased significantly.
this guy deserves way more than 20 days in jail in my opinion

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by calgaryrocks

first off, the guy is married with kids so should not be thinking about sleeping with other girls
second off, how long did he know her? sleeping with a girl you barely know is asking for trouble (yea yea I know lots of you do it all the time). if he got to know her and find out what she likes to do or where she goes to school (that she is still young enough to go to school) he would figure out she is way too young for him. a 39 year old.
thirdly, having sex with someone after getting them drunk? as a cop he should know better than that
even if she looked 20, he has no business sleeping with her. also, the girl would be more to blame if he hadn't gotten her drunk, as she shouldn't be sleeping with guys at that age (yes the paternal instinct here) but being a teenager she was probably happy to be having alchohol, and once drunk her inhibitions would be decreased significantly.
this guy deserves way more than 20 days in jail in my opinion

I sentence you to 20 days in proverbial jail for not using spacing.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Thor

So its rape at 15, and fully legal at 16?

At 15 she can't handle the sexual decision for that consensual encounter so its statutory rape. At 16 she can handle the sexual decision and its just gross and disgusting what he did.

Again I´m not stating a line shouldn't be picked, I just argue the courts need to have the power of deciding on a case by case basis rather than it being cut and dry as you seem to be advocating here.

What do you think the judge should have done here btw, what ultimately do you think is the proper punishment?

It should be illegal for a 39 year old to sleep with anyone under 18.

I think the courts should have the power to decide ambiguous cases involving issues in the 16-22 year old range. Outside of that, it should be a case by case on sentencing but not on whether it was a crime.

I think he recieved proper punishment. I don't think keeping him in jail is necessarily the answer as it just sucks up resources for someone who doesn't seem likely to reoffend. So that combined with his sex offender status andprobation is probably good enough to properly deter others, protect the public, and punish him.

[troutman]

Calif hockey mom convicted of underage sex charges

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/C...es-3777175.php

Davis, a divorced mother of three, was arrested in September after being accused of giving alcohol to her son's teammates and having sex with two of them in her Laguna Niguel home.

She acknowledged having sex with the 16-year-old, but insisted that she had to rebuff the advances of the 13-year-old.

Davis faces up to five years in prison for the conviction.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

12 year olds go to university too sometimes. Intelligence does not mean you are an adult.

This is about power dynamics and coercion. A 15 year old does not have a proper grasp of the consequences of their actions. They are easily manipulated and coerced. That's why they can't vote for example.

I think we live in a culture that idolizes and objectifies bodies to the point that people think sex with teenagers is legitimate because they feel like they are naturally compelled to do it. That's bull ####. Sexual complusion is a maladaptive coping mechanism to a society that enforces gender roles and limits self-expression. Sex is about two autonomous and equal individuals sharing intimacy. This idea that men can't keep it in the pants around children should be insulting to all of us.

Do 12 year olds habitually live on their own without a guardian? No.

As for your argument about society, that's garbage too. Historically, women were married at age 12-13, and began sexual encounters at that point. Juliet was a 13 year old, and up until very recently, it was the norm for girls that age to get married and start producing their own children. Often these girls were marreid to established men, IE much older. Our society and its morals have changed things so that girls aged 12-16 are less sexualized and now considered legally and morally "off limits".

Despite the alarmist attitudes surrounding teenagers and sex, teenagers are getting pregnant at far lower rates and having sex far later than they have at any point in history. Obviously, part of this has to do with greater access to birth control pills and prophelactics, but those things have been widely available since the 1990s. Pregnancy and abortion rates have fallen dramatically since then. Which indicates that teenagers are having less sex or having it in a more responsible and mature way.

http://micpohling.wordpress.com/2008...ate-1972-2005/

Society has to draw the line somewhere and 16 is a good place. I agree with you that, in general, 15 is too young, which is why this guy is now a registered sex offender and has to serve a jail sentence.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

It should be illegal for a 39 year old to sleep with anyone under 18.

I think the courts should have the power to decide ambiguous cases involving issues in the 16-22 year old range. Outside of that, it should be a case by case on sentencing but not on whether it was a crime.

I think he recieved proper punishment. I don't think keeping him in jail is necessarily the answer as it just sucks up resources for someone who doesn't seem likely to reoffend. So that combined with his sex offender status andprobation is probably good enough to properly deter others, protect the public, and punish him.

16-22?

You think a 22 year old is incapable of making a decision like that? The person sleeping with them should potentially face jail time or be considered a sex offender?

I mean I can at least understand the 16-18 arugments. But at 22, many people have graduated university, are working, and have bought homes.

Did you honestly live this kind of puritan lifestyle between 16 and 22, or are these just morals you feel should be forced upon young people now?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

12 year olds go to university too sometimes. Intelligence does not mean you are an adult.

This is about power dynamics and coercion. A 15 year old does not have a proper grasp of the consequences of their actions. They are easily manipulated and coerced. That's why they can't vote for example.

The consequences of sex for the victim are the same regardless of the age of her partner. If it was a legal encounter with a 16 year old partner or with the 39 year old cop the consequences still are emotional damage, disease, and pregnancy. I think you are being very insulting and misoginistic towards young women in saying that they are delicate little flowers incapable of making decisions and need protection from the paternal state.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by blankall

Do 12 year olds habitually live on their own without a guardian? No.

As for your argument about society, that's garbage too. Historically, women were married at age 12-13, and began sexual encounters at that point. Juliet was a 13 year old, and up until very recently, it was the norm for girls that age to get married and start producing their own children. Often these girls were marreid to established men, IE much older. Our society and its morals have changed things so that girls aged 12-16 are less sexualized and now considered legally and morally "off limits".

Despite the alarmist attitudes surrounding teenagers and sex, teenagers are getting pregnant at far lower rates and having sex far later than they have at any point in history. Obviously, part of this has to do with greater access to birth control pills and prophelactics, but those things have been widely available since the 1990s. Pregnancy and abortion rates have fallen dramatically since then. Which indicates that teenagers are having less sex or having it in a more responsible and mature way.

http://micpohling.wordpress.com/2008...ate-1972-2005/

Society has to draw the line somewhere and 16 is a good place. I agree with you that, in general, 15 is too young, which is why this guy is now a registered sex offender and has to serve a jail sentence.

Yes, historically, women were sold off into marriage and given no sexual autonomy. What's your point?

Your point about marriage age is wrong anyway. Yes women were sold off into marriage that young, but by the 1600s the large majority of brides were 19 or older in Northwestern Europe. 22 was the average age of a bride during this time.

From marriageable age wiki:

Still, in most of Northwestern Europe, marriage at very early ages was rare; one thousand marriage certificates from 1619 to 1660 in the Archdiocese of Canterbury show that only one bride was 13 years of age, four were 15, twelve were 16, and seventeen were 17 years of age while the other 966 brides were at least 19 years of age at marriage. And the Church dictated that both the bride and groom must be at least 21 years of age to marry without the consent of their families; in the certificates, the most common age for the brides is 22 years and for the grooms 24 years is the most common age, with average ages of 24 years for the brides and 27.75 for the grooms [4]. While European noblewomen married early, they were a small minority[5] and the marriage certificates from Canterbury show that even among nobility it was very rare to marry women off at very early ages[6].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageable_age

Also, you seem to believe in the myth that teenage women are ready for pregnancy. That's not true at all. Teenage pregnancies are much more likely to have complications. The 20s are the best time for women to conceive. Which is probably why they didn't marry women off earlier, since they would have observed teen mothers dying more often.

From a strictly biological perspective, the 20s is the best decade for conceiving and carrying a baby: Experts say the average woman's fertility peaks when she's 24.

http://www.babycenter.com/0_age-and-...20s_1494692.bc

I don't really mind teenagers having sex, although we need to do a much better job with sex education and teaching the importance of autonomy. I mind the adults who have sex with them.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by blankall

Care to back this up with a scientific study of some kind?

Random 5 min Google leads to this one, this one, and this article, which I think references the first paper.

I learned it in training sessions about the subject, so have not read any actual studies on the matter.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by GGG

The consequences of sex for the victim are the same regardless of the age of her partner. If it was a legal encounter with a 16 year old partner or with the 39 year old cop the consequences still are emotional damage, disease, and pregnancy. I think you are being very insulting and misoginistic towards young women in saying that they are delicate little flowers incapable of making decisions and need protection from the paternal state.

This post is dishonest and derailing.

3/10 for trolling.

10/10 for rape apologism.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by blankall

16-22?

You think a 22 year old is incapable of making a decision like that? The person sleeping with them should potentially face jail time or be considered a sex offender?

I mean I can at least understand the 16-18 arugments. But at 22, many people have graduated university, are working, and have bought homes.

Did you honestly live this kind of puritan lifestyle between 16 and 22, or are these just morals you feel should be forced upon young people now?

No. I meant that relationships with people between the ages of 16-22 (16, 17 year olds dating 18-22 year olds) should be treated differently that people out of that age range.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Random 5 min Google leads to this one, this one, and this article, which I think references the first paper.

I learned it in training sessions about the subject, so have not read any actual studies on the matter.

In the article, the researchers hypothesize that the continued wiring occurs because of the abundance of new life experiences that occur during young adulthood, such as pursuing post-secondary education, starting a career, forging independence and new social and family relationships.

They are saying that wiring changes due to gaining life experience. If you stop young people from making their own decisions, you are taking away that ability to gain experience. I also don't see anything in their that says the minds of a young person are unable to make decisions.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

This post is dishonest and derailing.

3/10 for trolling.

10/10 for rape apologism.

You are the one who believes that a 22 year old women could be incapable of choosing a sexul partner. It reeks of trying to have society control womens sexuality.

I agree with an arbitrary line being drawn somewhere because it makes it easier to prosecute then having to prove there was a power dynamic that made one person incapable of consent. At some point there needs to be a line drawn. Where i fundementally disagree with you is you seem to believe a 15 year old is incapable of making a decision regarding their sexuality. I do not, and as a society we need to ensure that teenagers are empowered to make these decisions.