Mars Rover Scheduled To Land Tonight At 11:31pm MST- Update- Landed!

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

3. Honestly its power source is almost the most important thing about the rover. It uses a radioisotope thermoelectric generator (RTG) for power, rather than solar panels. This is very important. This means the rover can operate day and night, in all seasons, and during/after dust storms. The previous rovers operated mostly during the day and had to park for the entire winter. Curiosity will be able to operate at full capacity at all points in time. The RTG also produces waste heat, which the rover uses to warm its instruments (rather than using precious power like the other rovers had to). Most importantly (in my mind), the RTG has a MINIMUM expected life of 14 years. It is kind of a strange thought but there is a decent possibility that this rover will still be operating when we land people on Mars.

RTGs aren't something new, so I'm not sure why this is a bigger deal than other stuff about this. All the deep space probes sent out use them, and the more recent probes like Cassini, Galileo and New Horizons use larger RTGs than Curiosity. Voyager 1 has been sending signals for 34 years straight.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Yes, the US spends 23% of it's budget on healthcare and medicare while we spend closer to 10% while receiving a much better level of general care. US has a lot of inefficiencies to work out.

Social programs don't necessarily have to be cut, but they can use a lot of streamlining like every other area of government.

I don't want to derail this thread, but where did you get 10% from?

Most provincial budgets spend close to 50% of their entire budget on healthcare.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Okay, I'm pretty sure the curiosity rover has a pretty good benefits package so it doesn't really care what % of GDP is being spent on healthcare, which is good because the healthcare system on Mars is pretty crappy.

So enough with the "Who is spending too much on what" banter, and more cool pics.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Fire

I don't want to derail this thread, but where did you get 10% from?

Most provincial budgets spend close to 50% of their entire budget on healthcare.

10% of GDP not provincial budget. These numbers are a bit out of date mind you since it's 2008 figures being tossed around in the wiki article. 2010 numbers say we are at 11.4%. Got budget and GDP numbers mixed up on my original post.
http://www.oecd.org/health/healthpol...CANADA2012.pdf

In Canada, only 10% of GDP was spent on health care.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari..._United_States

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Spending on social programs is the problem?

Really? A government spending it's tax revenue on services for the tax paying public is where the waste is?

It's not the $50 billion dollar subsidy to one of the highest profit generating sectors of the economy as just a single example of the wastes of the 'free market'?

It's amazing how well the marketing has worked on people against their own interests.

Way to completely miss the point. The US has a spending problem. The majority of their spending is on social programs. How can you possibly not understand that?

Yes I know they subsidize all kinds of industries. That should be stopped as well. But lets not think for one second that they can ever balance the budget and reign in spending unless they cut back on how much they spend on social programs.

Sadly, instead of doing that, great programs like NASA are getting the cut.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

RTGs aren't something new, so I'm not sure why this is a bigger deal than other stuff about this. All the deep space probes sent out use them, and the more recent probes like Cassini, Galileo and New Horizons use larger RTGs than Curiosity. Voyager 1 has been sending signals for 34 years straight.

I didn't mean that RTGs were new. I meant it was important that this Mars rover is using that power source, for the reasons I mentioned.

I understand they have been used for a long time and often very successfully.

[Tinordi]

http://rmsylte.visibli.com/share/zXxHY0

Awesome

[Madman]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

http://rmsylte.visibli.com/share/zXxHY0

Awesome

Very cool - but one of the old rovers, not Curiosity.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

http://rmsylte.visibli.com/share/zXxHY0

Awesome

I got that same link from someone telling me it was the first panorama view from Curiosity. While it is cool, it's neither new, nor from Curiosity.
It's from one of the Spirit/Opportunity rovers.

[troutman]

This is the latest panorama released by NASA July 2012. It was assembled from 817 images taken between Dec. 21, 2011, and May 8, 2012, while Opportunity was stationed on an outcrop informally named 'Greeley Haven'. on a segment of the rim of ancient Endeavour Crater.

[BloodFetish]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Enough, have a nice hi-res picture of the heat shield falling away:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ms.../pia16021.html

This is a little taste of the hi-res descent video still to come.

Any martian looking up at the sky and seeing that is gonna be like "Holy Sheeit UFO!"

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

A little late to this but I completely disagree that the NASA budget should be cut. First, it's a incredibly small chunk of the US GDP with only 0.5% being spent on NASA. Contrast that with the TSA budget which is bigger and the defence budget which is almost 20% of the US GDP. Do we really need more warfare in this world?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U...._-_FY_2010.svg

Second, ROI of spinoff technologies from NASA has been estimated conservatively at 2-3 times of it's budget. That means the US actually makes money off of NASA investments rather than lose money. Even in tough times it would probably make sense to continue investment from this point alone.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/njonl...00827_1798.php

I'm not saying it should be cut, but just that it should be considered when times are tough. If research has to be cut somewhere, I'd rather see it cut from the space program, than other areas like medical, agricultural, environmental and other things that directly benefit the citizens of this planet now and not just some future theoretical payoff. Put the money towards saving endangered species and habitats on this planet instead of looking at rocks on another. If it came down to one or the other, I take this planet over another (and when times are tough, environmental programs are usually one of the first things to be cut. NASA should be fair game then too).

As someone else mentioned, space programs are more status symbols than a necessity. Like any research sector, of course there will be spinoffs that might be useful to ordinary people one day, but more than from other areas that get cut all the time without so much as a wimper? I haven't seen any information that suggests that.

Edit: Sorry, I will not rain on the parade any more. I want to see the pictures as much as anyone.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I'm not saying it should be cut, but just that it should be considered when times are tough. If research has to be cut somewhere, I'd rather see it cut from the space program, than other areas like medical, agricultural, environmental and other things that directly benefit the citizens of this planet now and not just some future theoretical payoff. Put the money towards saving endangered species and habitats on this planet instead of looking at rocks on another. If it came down to one or the other, I take this planet over another (and when times are tough, environmental programs are usually one of the first things to be cut. NASA should be fair game then too).

As someone else mentioned, space programs are more status symbols than a necessity. Like any research sector, of course there will be spinoffs that might be useful to ordinary people one day, but more than from other areas that get cut all the time without so much as a wimper? I haven't seen any information that suggests that.

Edit: Sorry, I will not rain on the parade any more. I want to see the pictures as much as anyone.

NASA and the research they do has a huge benefit to society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spin-off_technologies

There's a good list there that includes;

• LEDs
• Infrared thermometers
• Artificial limbs
• Aircraft anti-icing systems
• Improved radial tires
• Fire resistant reinforcement
• Improved firefighting equipment
• Tempered foam
• Baby food
• Cordless vacuums
• Water purification
• Solar energy harnessing

NASA is important to all things besides space. Even contributing to the advacements of the MRI, which is hugely important. The last thing the US needs is more budget cuts to NASA while the DoD keeps getting a raise. Their biggest threat, in my opinion, is suffering from a regression in science and tech research as well as education rather than military attacks.

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by Yasa

NASA and the research they do has a huge benefit to society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spin-off_technologies

There's a good list there that includes;

• LEDs
• Infrared thermometers
• Artificial limbs
• Aircraft anti-icing systems
• Improved radial tires
• Fire resistant reinforcement
• Improved firefighting equipment
• Tempered foam
• Baby food
• Cordless vacuums
• Water purification
• Solar energy harnessing

NASA is important to all things besides space. Even contributing to the advacements of the MRI, which is hugely important. The last thing the US needs is more budget cuts to NASA while the DoD keeps getting a raise. Their biggest threat, in my opinion, is suffering from a regression in science and tech research as well as education rather than military attacks.

To be fair, military research has benefited civilian use as well.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Byrns

To be fair, military research has benefited civilian use as well.

Absolutely. The Cold War in particular was one of the best things that ever happened to us technologically.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by Byrns

To be fair, military research has benefited civilian use as well.

It sure has. It also has a budget 27x larger than NASA. I'm not saying they should take the entire DoD budget and give it to NASA, but that NASA needs to have theirs increased rather than decreased and at the very least left alone for now.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Yasa

NASA and the research they do has a huge benefit to society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spin-off_technologies

There's a good list there that includes;

• LEDs
• Infrared thermometers
• Artificial limbs
• Aircraft anti-icing systems
• Improved radial tires
• Fire resistant reinforcement
• Improved firefighting equipment
• Tempered foam
• Baby food
• Cordless vacuums
• Water purification
• Solar energy harnessing

NASA is important to all things besides space. Even contributing to the advacements of the MRI, which is hugely important. The last thing the US needs is more budget cuts to NASA while the DoD keeps getting a raise. Their biggest threat, in my opinion, is suffering from a regression in science and tech research as well as education rather than military attacks.

I think programs like NASA are important on more fundamental levels too - the level of applied research, engineering, and project and mission management required for efforts like the ISS, the Mars missions, the Shuttle (although that one has its detractors), etc, represent pinnacles of excellence and execution - we need to continually develop and improve our ability to execute massive, massively complex projects of this nature.

If you wanted to do massive earth-altering programs in the future, like say fusion reactors, climate engineering, meteor defence, off-planet resource harvesting, etc, you need the kinds of general skills an environment like NASA fosters. NASA is very space focused (obviously), but the disciplines it nurtures are hugely important to civilization.

[Cowperson]

The story of Mohawk Man . . . . internet sensation from NASA

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/...,4398745.story

Cowperson

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Yasa

NASA and the research they do has a huge benefit to society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spin-off_technologies

There's a good list there that includes;

• LEDs
• Infrared thermometers
• Artificial limbs
• Aircraft anti-icing systems
• Improved radial tires
• Fire resistant reinforcement
• Improved firefighting equipment
• Tempered foam
• Baby food
• Cordless vacuums
• Water purification
• Solar energy harnessing

NASA is important to all things besides space. Even contributing to the advacements of the MRI, which is hugely important. The last thing the US needs is more budget cuts to NASA while the DoD keeps getting a raise. Their biggest threat, in my opinion, is suffering from a regression in science and tech research as well as education rather than military attacks.

Hell, the James Webb Space Telescope hasn't even been launched yet, but technologies developed when working on its 18 panels have led to advances in optical mapping technologies that are already benefiting those that require laser eye surgery and/or contact lenses. This thing isn't even launched yet, and won't be for a few years yet, and people are already experiencing the windfall from it, without that windfall even being the expected target of the program.

And, though not specifically related to NASA, other curiosity-driven scientific research has led to breakthroughs most people take for granted every single day: Einstein's though experiments (which relativity basically was until technology was developed that could adequately test it) allow GPS systems the world over to function. Wi-fi technology was the direct result of the hunt for the radio waves evaporating black holes were though to give off.

It's as if some people (and I'm not specifically referring to FlamesAddiction here, but those in the more general public) can't see the worth of scientific research and discovery unless the stated goal is to enhance their life today -- not tomorrow, today -- and develop a very specific product out of it. It's sometimes frustrating to see such a vast swathe of humanity so mundanely bound to the world-bubbles they've constructed around themselves.

[troutman]

Curiosity Rover ‏@MarsCuriosity
Gale Crater Vista, in Glorious Color! Get a low-res preview of the 360-panorama to come [pic] http://1.usa.gov/MCkZ2x #MSL