[News] Flames prospect Ferland charged with assault

[hamburgler]

drugs and booze are a sure way to lose.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by zuluking

Good grief. There are virtually no facts about this case, so you make them up. Then equate your made-up version of reality to a whole bunch of other terrible crimes.

In this case, it was a fight outside a bar at 1:10am. Crap happens. I'll wait to see exactly what happened. The "story" basically says that a buddy came over to assist his friend and got punched in the face. The version on CP is that the victim was huddled over the near-lifeless body of his beaten friend encouraging him to "stay with me...don't go to the light...come back..." when Ferland callously slammed him in the head with a lightpost he uprooted while in a drug-addled rage.

Fine, I exaggerate - but did you consider that "assist a friend" was for another drunk guy to pile in to the fracas and get his face broken. Isn't that as much a possibility than your equally fictitious version of events? Nah, it has to be Ferland's truly evil hidden inner character manifesting in a drunken "D-Bag move."

Your bolded bit above is such a pile of horse manure it warrants no rebuttal.

Of course I don't expect Flames fans to be doing much besides playing the "Wait till everything comes out card", just as I'm sure they would for an Oilers or Can####s prospect....lol. Regardless of what happened with the facts, whats indisputable is this shows bad judgement on his part. Notice we aren't hearing every 19-year old prospect getting involved in these types of incidents? At this point the truth may never come out, because as I mentioned before I can see one of his buddies falling on the grenade for him. Because if this does proceed, jail is obviously very possible.

As to the bolded part being a bunch of crap, I don't think you've spent too much time around drunks. As someone who spent 5 years in the liquor industry, alcohol truly does show a person's true colours. I've had many friends and associates talk about what good guys they are and how they aren't racist....but get a few drinks in them and the racial slurs are just flying everywhere. So they aren't racists, they are just racist when drunk? Alcohol prevents you from properly analyzing your actions, you simply do whatever you feel, which is what an individual who believes in their actions will do. If you're suggesting that isn't true, then you've clearly never had a drink in your life.

[Bootsy]

Hard to say what really happened, ....if I was to guess the victim wasn't as innocent as he proclaims and once Ferland comes out with his version of what happened , he will make himself look more innocent than he really is too...from my experince with late night bar scuffles parties on the opposite side of each other have vastly different stories ...and what acually happened is somewhere inbetween.
But who knows its all speculation unless you were actually there.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Of course I don't expect Flames fans to be doing much besides playing the "Wait till everything comes out card", just as I'm sure they would for an Oilers or Can####s prospect....lol.

So because we act irrational when this stuff happens to rival teams, we should act irrational in regards to our own players?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

So because we act irrational when this stuff happens to rival teams, we should act irrational in regards to our own players?

Consistency would be nice yes. Hold everyone to the same standard: either always act irrational or always give the benefit of the doubt. It just looks insanely hypocritical to apply differeny standards based of the jersey of the accused.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by calumniate

Days like this make me wish it was still the 80's

This has nothing to do with the Ferland incident persay but it pi### me off when i hear people condeming any bar fight.

They happen, add too much drink, a hot chick and guys natural ego's and its going to happen.
Honestly it should be the way it was in the 80- early 90's if a bar fight happens, 2 guys say you want to go they go and if 1 guy gets busted up its on his own bravado. But now its jump in's, head stomping, knives, someone always calls the police even in a regular fight.
I can't count how many times I scrapped and afterwords someone in the crowd would say thats enough he has had enough or you give the person the chance to quit. Hug it out and the guy would buy me a drink or vise-versa.
Some of my very best friends became guys I fought.

As for Ferland sounds like 2 guys wanted to go and 1 punch its over. Also from the reports dude got messed up . You don't want to get hurt be nice, but if you don't want to follow that simple rule you take the risk of getting the worse end of it.
It used to be if it was a honest fight and if the police were called they would sort it out and situation would be resolved without charges.
Now, any "normal" fight results in charges if there are witnesses.
I hope for Ferlands sake he wasn't raging and was acting like a tough guy, rather find out a want to be tough guy brought the fight to Ferland.
Sorry if this shocks or upsets anyone who reads this but I grew up when times were not what they are now.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Of course I don't expect Flames fans to be doing much besides playing the "Wait till everything comes out card", just as I'm sure they would for an Oilers or Can####s prospect....lol. Regardless of what happened with the facts, whats indisputable is this shows bad judgement on his part. Notice we aren't hearing every 19-year old prospect getting involved in these types of incidents? At this point the truth may never come out, because as I mentioned before I can see one of his buddies falling on the grenade for him. Because if this does proceed, jail is obviously very possible.

As to the bolded part being a bunch of crap, I don't think you've spent too much time around drunks. As someone who spent 5 years in the liquor industry, alcohol truly does show a person's true colours. I've had many friends and associates talk about what good guys they are and how they aren't racist....but get a few drinks in them and the racial slurs are just flying everywhere. So they aren't racists, they are just racist when drunk? Alcohol prevents you from properly analyzing your actions, you simply do whatever you feel, which is what an individual who believes in their actions will do. If you're suggesting that isn't true, then you've clearly never had a drink in your life.

You worked in the liquor industry? Wtf does that even mean? And how does that give you any more insight? I bartended my way through school and saw a person heading into a scrap get beaned an awful lot. Happened to me too when breaking up a fights. Think about it like this. If you are fighting a guy and another guy gets involved, are you going to wait for him to punch first?

This "I was just trying to help the guy I'm innocent" crap is also very common if there was a group if them involved.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

You worked in the liquor industry? Wtf does that even mean? And how does that give you any more insight? I bartended my way through school and saw a person heading into a scrap get beaned an awful lot. Happened to me too when breaking up a fights. Think about it like this. If you are fighting a guy and another guy gets involved, are you going to wait for him to punch first?

This "I was just trying to help the guy I'm innocent" crap is also very common if there was a group if them involved.

Well I was involved with both retail at the bar level and the liquor store level. How does it give me more insight? It's allowed me to interact, see and observe thousands of people, and in my experiences alcohol absolutely changes people, from their attitude to their confidence, and you're more likely to see the real version of a person after a few drinks, because their filter is off and they basically are acting freely, without thinking, thus giving you insight as to how they would act if they could freely. Outside of sodium pentathol, alcohol is as good a truth serum as their is.

Ironically to your second point the only time I have ever been kicked out of a club was for breaking up a fight.

Also worth pointing out: He wasn't arrested here, he has been charged with the crime. To me that suggests there is evidence and witnesses.

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Well I was involved with both retail at the bar level and the liquor store level. How does it give me more insight? It's allowed me to interact, see and observe thousands of people, and in my experiences alcohol absolutely changes people, from their attitude to their confidence, and you're more likely to see the real version of a person after a few drinks, because their filter is off and they basically are acting freely, without thinking, thus giving you insight as to how they would act if they could freely. Outside of sodium pentathol, alcohol is as good a truth serum as their is.

Ironically to your second point the only time I have ever been kicked out of a club was for breaking up a fight.

Also worth pointing out: He wasn't arrested here, he has been charged with the crime. To me that suggests there is evidence and witnesses.

Your logic here is really weak. You're saying nothing besides you choose not to believe drunk people you've seen are acting out of character. This does nothing to disprove that people sometimes can act out of character due to alcohol. While being drunk may loosen inhibitions to bring out a person's truer self in some cases, alcohol certainly can make people act completely out of character sometimes too. There are numerous health resources out there stating this.

I think most people here have been around plenty of drunk people and your experience doesn't make you more of an expert. You're trying to claim people don't act out of character when drunk. No matter how many thousands of people you've dealt with, all it takes to disprove a generalized statement like you're making are examples to the contrary. I'm pretty sure most people have seen completely out of character behaviour in people they truly know well or have done it themselves. I know personally I've said hurtful things that I'm 100% certain that I had never believed or even thought before.

I'm absolutely positive in all your experience you have seen people act of character a lot of times, but you choose to believe they're not. For the most part with most of your experience being with strangers you're not really in a position to know.

As for Ferland's actions, I don't think anybody is excusing anything he's done because he may have been drunk. I think some people are being understanding about him making a mistake that is common to many people and saying he's not necessarily an a-hole sober if if he was drunk and made a mistake.

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Consistency would be nice yes. Hold everyone to the same standard: either always act irrational or always give the benefit of the doubt. It just looks insanely hypocritical to apply differeny standards based of the jersey of the accused.

LOL seriously, this is a forum about a sports team. It's not the place to ask for unbiased behaviour from fans.

[Stay Golden]

I don't know anyone that doesn't act out of character in some capacity when they are drunk.
Depending on what type of alcohol being consumed it is a definite factor how some people can go snake eyes nasty.
A rye, whiskey, TQ drunk is different to deal with then a rum drunk, just saying.

[Huntingwhale]

I like Michael Ferland

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I never said such a thing. But in my particular community it is more prevalent in the native population.

Why do people in this place feel the need to turn you into a racist or bigot just for making an observation. I hate to be the bearer of bad news here but certain ethnic groups are more prone to alcoholism problems than others and with liquor comes violence.

It's called stereo-typing and whether you're aware of it or not, you lumped Ferland in the 'drunk Indian' stereotype with no ACTUAL evidence that alcohol was a factor in the incident.

You wouldn't want to be stereo-typed as a stupid redneck would you?

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I like Michael Ferland

Hopefully a couple months from now this can be his fricken' thread.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by blah blah

I think most people here have been around plenty of drunk people and your experience doesn't make you more of an expert. You're trying to claim people don't act out of character when drunk. No matter how many thousands of people you've dealt with, all it takes to disprove a generalized statement like you're making are examples to the contrary. I'm pretty sure most people have seen completely out of character behaviour in people they truly know well or have done it themselves. I know personally I've said hurtful things that I'm 100% certain that I had never believed or even thought before.

I'm absolutely positive in all your experience you have seen people act of character a lot of times, but you choose to believe they're not. For the most part with most of your experience being with strangers you're not really in a position to know.

As for Ferland's actions, I don't think anybody is excusing anything he's done because he may have been drunk. I think some people are being understanding about him making a mistake that is common to many people and saying he's not necessarily an a-hole sober if if he was drunk and made a mistake.

As I've mentioned, people who would never ever say a racist thing have a few drinks its on for the racial slurs. So you're suggesting that these thoughts of racisms only manifest themselves when these people are drunk? I simply don't believe that. The thoughts are already there, the alcohol essentially acts as an agent to bring out these thoughts. But its not like they don't have these feelings already, they are simply supressing them. So while you can argue they'd never do these things sober, I simply think there's a barrier of fear (being labeled a racist is a tough one to overcome) that seems to disappear with alcohol. Similarily, if there was no fear of being outed as a racist, I think you'd see those people acting more racist.

Ultimately we'll never agree on this, so arguing back and forth seems pointless.

LOL seriously, this is a forum about a sports team. It's not the place to ask for unbiased behaviour from fans.

Right...so if you're cool bashing other teams without merit or validity, you should then also be cool taking it, no?

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

I don't know anyone that doesn't act out of character in some capacity when they are drunk.
Depending on what type of alcohol being consumed it is a definite factor how some people can go snake eyes nasty.
A rye, whiskey, TQ drunk is different to deal with then a rum drunk, just saying.

The Canucks don't act out of character when they're drunk, they're always ######bags.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

As I've mentioned, people who would never ever say a racist thing have a few drinks its on for the racial slurs. So you're suggesting that these thoughts of racisms only manifest themselves when these people are drunk? I simply don't believe that. The thoughts are already there, the alcohol essentially acts as an agent to bring out these thoughts. But its not like they don't have these feelings already, they are simply supressing them. So while you can argue they'd never do these things sober, I simply think there's a barrier of fear (being labeled a racist is a tough one to overcome) that seems to disappear with alcohol. Similarily, if there was no fear of being outed as a racist, I think you'd see those people acting more racist.

Ultimately we'll never agree on this, so arguing back and forth seems pointless.

Considering some of the outrageous things I've read you say sober, I'd be fascinated to hear what you are like drunk, when the real you comes out.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Consistency would be nice yes. Hold everyone to the same standard: either always act irrational or always give the benefit of the doubt. It just looks insanely hypocritical to apply differeny standards based of the jersey of the accused.

I don't think you've spent too much time around sports fans. As someone who has spent 25 years being a sports fan, fandom truly does show a person's true colours. I've had many friends and associates talk about what consistent guys they are and how they are always fair....but go to a few Flames games with them and their criticisms of only the opposing team players are just flying everywhere. So they are rational, they are just irrational when they're at sporting events? Being a sports team fan prevents you from properly analyzing your actions, you simply do whatever you feel, which is what an individual who believes in their actions will do. If you're suggesting that isn't true, then you've clearly never been a fan of a sports team in your life.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by zuluking

I don't think you've spent too much time around sports fans. As someone who has spent 25 years being a sports fan, fandom truly does show a person's true colours. I've had many friends and associates talk about what consistent guys they are and how they are always fair....but go to a few Flames games with them and their criticisms of only the opposing team players are just flying everywhere. So they are rational, they are just irrational when they're at sporting events? Being a sports team fan prevents you from properly analyzing your actions, you simply do whatever you feel, which is what an individual who believes in their actions will do. If you're suggesting that isn't true, then you've clearly never been a fan of a sports team in your life.

I adressed it in my previous post, I'm cool with being totaly irrational, just don't get upset when it comes back the other way from other teams fans. Being irrational towards other teams and then getting all pissed when someone does it towards your team is just a bit hypocritical. Thats all, if you're going to dish it out don't complain when someone else is ready to give it back.

[JJsChaos]

Assuming what he is being charged with is true, you get what you deserve. Everyone has the ability and freedom to use their better judgement. That being said, we all make mistakes and I hope the Flames organization is willing to give him a second chance and work with him after everything is all said and done.

Good luck Ferland, and I indeed hope you are as innocent as you claim to be.