General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[topfiverecords]

Sept 1: Sorry Glendale. Jamison still hasn't been able to come up with enough investors to purchase the team. Would you like to extend our lease agreement another 30 days. We are positive we are only days away from a deal.
Oct 1: Sorry Glendale. Jamison has backed out from purchasing the team. Unfortunately the season is now ready to begin so we're going to have to continue playing at Jobing.com for 12-13.
Dec 1: Hello new Glendale mayor and council. Our lease agreement has expired recently. Here's the arena bills.
June 1 2013: The Phoenix Coyotes have been sold to Pierre Karl Péladeau / Quebecor Inc. and we are pleased to announce the Quebec Nordiques are back in the NHL. They will play 2 seasons at the newly refurbished Pepsi Centre before moving to the new arena in 2015.

[Jordan!]

As of today my gut suggests the above.. except i'm not sold on the team going to Quebec.

I'm getting pretty pessimistic, I don't know how long I can stomach an ownerless season.. especially if Doan leaves.

If no deal is done by Opening night, i think we're totally borked on a future in AZ

Then again, there could be a lockout...

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Then again, there could be a lockout...

There better not be. Two consecutive lockouts would be an embarrassment, one the NHL doesn't need given the three-year embarrassment of the whole Coyotes debacle.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

I'll guarantee you there will be a lockout. Fehr is saying that he doesn't see Sept. 15 as a deadline. That's troubling, isn't it?

Although, if it's only one month I think they'd try and still squeeze 82 games in. Regular season went into May in 94-95 don't forget.

[Notorious Honey Badger]

i think a lock out is inevitable. how long the lock out is really is the question.

im hoping a month max.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

There better not be. Two consecutive lockouts would be an embarrassment, one the NHL doesn't need given the three-year embarrassment of the whole Coyotes debacle.

Through the 1980's and 1990's, major league baseball had, I think, eight consecutive work stoppages - either strike or lockout - with the expiration of each CBA.

Most of that was with Donald Fehr.

He'll want to get a good estimate on how much pain owners are willing to endure - how much of the season they're willing to walk away from - and weigh that against how much of the season his membership is willing to write off.

I would think it unlikely owners want to write off the whole season this time - it was pretty obvious they were willing to do so in 2004-05, even if it wasn't obvious to Bob Goodenow. On the other hand, Fehr's membership has no stomach for the long haul in this either.

Different situation from 2004-05.

Lockouts are fairly common these days. Fans should expect them.

Cowperson

[fokkerfan]

If there's a lockout won't Westgate dry up and blow away? After all the only way it can be successful is if Coyote fans support it....

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

There better not be. Two consecutive lockouts would be an embarrassment, one the NHL doesn't need given the three-year embarrassment of the whole Coyotes debacle.

Or what?

There most certainly will be a lockout.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Or what?

There most certainly will be a lockout.

Or else!

In the last dispute, the owners had pretty much overwhelming fan support since everybody could see salaries were getting out of control. This time it's not so obvious especially when they are crowing about big profits and the NHL got what they wanted in the last CBA.

Sure they still have problems with their weaker small market teams but they can't expect the players to solve all their problems. Some franchises are just misrun while others maybe should move. If that isn't enough and it seems it isn't in the NHLs eyes, they should establish a better revenue sharing plan. The fans aren't going to be so understanding this time if Bettman locks the players out, as they will probably just blame the owners for greed. Fans are only understanding for so long, baseball found that out.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Or else!

In the last dispute, the owners had pretty much overwhelming fan support since everybody could see salaries were getting out of control. This time it's not so obvious especially when they are crowing about big profits and the NHL got what they wanted in the last CBA.

Sure they still have problems with their weaker small market teams but they can't expect the players to solve all their problems. Some franchises are just misrun while others maybe should move. If that isn't enough and it seems it isn't in the NHLs eyes, they should establish a better revenue sharing plan. The fans aren't going to be so understanding this time if Bettman locks the players out, as they will probably just blame the owners for greed. Fans are only understanding for so long, baseball found that out.

I dont mean this to sound poorly...but what are they going to do about it?

There is NO way the season starts without a CBA in place...and since the players arent even countering the NHL offer, its impossible for that to occur. The owners know that once the PA members start missing paycheques, the tide turns in their favor...and fans will flock back once again after a month or whatever it turns out to be, without hockey,

The baseball example would be more appropo if the players werent the ones who ended the season right before the playoffs...after season ticket holders had paid out their monies for that year. Thats why baseball fans were so pissed, but even at that they still came back eventually as BB is enjoying record revenues.

Rightly or wrongly the owners have all the cards stacked in their favor once again and most assuredly are willing to lose out on a month of revenues to ensure they get a deal that is appealing to them. Its entirely their right to do so as well as it is their money and league on the line....and because they only get to try for these things when the existing CBA is not in effect.

[Vulcan]

I dont mean this to sound poorly...but what are they going to do about it?

Lose interest, and so buy less tickets, watch less NHL on TV, buy less merchandise etc.

If they have the same attitude as you do in your statement, the owners will pay.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Lose interest, and so buy less tickets, watch less NHL on TV, buy less merchandise etc.

If they have the same attitude as you do in your statement, the owners will pay.

And with a hard cap linked to revenue...the players will pay just as much.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And with a hard cap linked to revenue...the players will pay just as much.

Yeah sure, which is all the more reason for both sides to reach an agreement. One side having a take it or leave it attitude will be remembered. This is a show business after all and doesn't deal with any hard commodities, a change in attitude by the public will hurt business.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah sure, which is all the more reason for both sides to reach an agreement. One side having a take it or leave it attitude will be remembered. This is a show business after all and doesn't deal with any hard commodities, a change in attitude by the public will hurt business.

Wondering.....which side has done this?

[Resolute 14]

The owners only have a "take it or leave it" attitude if you are already heavily biased against the owners. Your own views colour your perceptions, Vulcan, and they are decidedly unlikely to be representative of NHL fans as a whole.

Under your logic, I could say that the union has shown a "whatever, we don't care" attitudes, since they can't even be bothered to negotiate yet.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Or what?

There most certainly will be a lockout.

NHL will most definitely lose fans this go around if there is a lock out.....

Some Cities (i.e. American) have other options other than NHL.

Personally I would be bitter if the Owners / players delay the season.

[Resolute 14]

Canadian cities have other options too. The fans will come back. Perhaps more slowly than last time, but they will come back.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by flambers

NHL will most definitely lose fans this go around if there is a lock out.....

Some Cities (i.e. American) have other options other than NHL.

Personally I would be bitter if the Owners / players delay the season.

At this point there is no doubt a lockout happens...this however doesnt mean a loss of games or even a delay in starting necessarily. There almost has to be the fabled "pressure points" before anything of significance gets accomplished.

The players have had the intial starting point from the NHL in front of them for weeks now, but have not countered anything as of yet that has been reported. Fehr doesnt do anything in haste, and has no problem at all with players missing game cheques as his history has shown. Unfortunately for fans, the same can be said about Bettman and his ways of getting things done.

And as resolute points out...fans will come back, they always do. I dont believe that the LO will be a long one to begun with though, just that pressure has to be felt on both sides for any meaningful dialogue to begin.

Or...they are making progress already with their many recent meetings and have agreed to keep it out of the media, which would be most preferable.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Wondering.....which side has done this?

I was responding to your statement defending the owners.

I dont mean this to sound poorly...but what are they going to do about it?

If that's the owners attitude it's a slam dunk.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The owners only have a "take it or leave it" attitude if you are already heavily biased against the owners. Your own views colour your perceptions, Vulcan, and they are decidedly unlikely to be representative of NHL fans as a whole.

Under your logic, I could say that the union has shown a "whatever, we don't care" attitudes, since they can't even be bothered to negotiate yet.

Where have you been? They've been negotiating and I gave a link the other day saying they would soon have a counter offer.

As for my perceptions, it's obvious that the owners are trying to get the players to bail them out, again. Even you now admit that a good revenue sharing plan is what is needed.