Would you help someone get treatments you think are bunk?

[Ashartus]

I thought about posting this in the naturopath thread but it might get lost there.

I find myself with a bit of a dilemma. A neighbour's teenage daughter has cancer. She's basically exhausted all of the approved treatments and the prognosis really isn't very good from what information I have. Now her family is trying to raise funds for her to get some "alternative" treatments, possibly in Europe or Mexico, after talking to a naturopath.

As those who know me are probably aware, I'm not exactly a supporter of alternative medicine. I don't have exact details on the treatments she's pursuing (and I don't think they've reached a final decision), but the limited information I've got indicates at least some of it is well into the realm of quackery. So I'm highly skeptical that these treatments will actually treat her cancer, but at the same time she's at the point where she considers this to be her only hope.

Do I:
- Help her out and keep my mouth shut, knowing that the treatments are probably bunk and I might be making quacks richer, but that her feeling some hope might at least make her days a bit brighter.
- Help her out but say that I think the treatments are nonsense, possibly generating some bad feelings.
- Avoid helping out and hope no one notices and that my wife doesn't get too mad at me for being an uncaring selfish monster?

[MarchHare]

Sorry about your neighbour.

I understand people get desperate when they think they have no other options, but I wouldn't help enable quackery. I'd politely decline and offer support in another way.

[Rathji]

How much money we talking about?

If it is $20, toss it in and make her family feel better.
If it is $1000, forget about it.

Somewhere in the middle and you gotta decide.

[nik-]

How do you determine the justified cost of buying hope, even if it's false hope?

[Lobotroth]

If as you say all other treatments are exhausted then why not try these alternative methods? It may or may not work but it can't hurt to try can it? As Rathji said, if the amount is reasonable then you should do it.

[scotty2hotty]

^^^ this

People on this board are very quick to dismiss the placebo effect as quackery. The treatment itself may be bunk, but quite often the outcome is real.

Like you said, she's already exhausted all allopathic options. It's not like she refused standard medical care for some sketchy woo woo therapy right off the bat.

The power of hope and belief can be very effective. As was mentioned above, I would support her for a modest sum. In doing so you are essentially adding to her hope without necessarily adding to line the pockets of a dubious treatment.

[Raekwon]

If you have the means to help them I say do it. Sounds like she is going to pass away anyway don't let your neighbors have that thought in their head of "what if" let them feel they tried everything possible to save her so they can have closure.

PS: F&$% Cancer

[burn_this_city]

I would contribute simply because it's the right thing to do. The wrong thing to do would be to get on the soapbox and pop her last balloon of hope. Who knows, maybe it won't cure her, but it might buy her a bit more time.

[MarchHare]

If as you say all other treatments are exhausted then why not try these alternative methods? It may or may not work but it can't hurt to try can it?

That depends how you define "it can't hurt to try". I would say that wasting money on a completely bogus "cure" plus the associated travel costs for the patient and her family is indeed causing harm.

As I said above, I'd politely decline to contribute to quack remedies, but consider making a donation in her name to the Alberta Cancer Society or a similar charity instead.

[Lobotroth]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

That depends how you define "it can't hurt to try". I would say that wasting money on a completely bogus "cure" plus the associated travel costs for the patient and her family is indeed causing harm.

As I said above, I'd politely decline to contribute to quack remedies, but consider making a donation in her name to the Alberta Cancer Society or a similar charity instead.

If I was in that family's shoes I probably wouldn't be concerned about money, I'd want to see her recover and would go to any means necessary to achieve that.

[CarlW]

I would want to ask what these alternative methods are? With who? If they are too crazy (psychic surgery, faith healing, or some other obvious super BS) you might just be wasting their money and I'd say no please don't. Rather spend that money fulfilling the daughter's dream trip or something.

Even if some people on this board think all alternative methods are "quackery", I'd probably say that not all alternative methods are equal, and if they don't actually work some are more dangerous than others. If it's something like herbs (ie. Ganoderma, Ginseng, etc.) ask them to research the herb/ask an expert before ingesting. Just my 2 cents.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Lobotroth

If I was in that family's shoes I probably wouldn't be concerned about money, I'd want to see her recover and would go to any means necessary to achieve that.

Bogus cures from shady clinics in Mexico or Eastern Europe will contribute absolutely nothing to the daughter's chances of survival. The scumbags who run those places are parasites who prey upon desperate people and should be treated as such.

If there was actually any medical validity whatsoever to these "cures", don't you think doctors in more reputable hospitals and clinics would be using them?

[mykalberta]

I agree with the above - Anything under $250 ($100 being ideal), just throw it in and consider it throw away money.

Anything under $500 think about how good of friends you are. Do you go on vacation together, are your kids friends etc etc.

Anything over $500 forget about it and dont have any bad feelings about telling them why.

[Lobotroth]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Bogus cures from shady clinics in Mexico or Eastern Europe will contribute absolutely nothing to the daughter's chances of survival. These people are parasites who prey upon desperate people and should be treated as such.

If there was actually any medical validity whatsoever to these "cures", don't you think doctors in more reputable hospitals and clinics would be using them?

Honestly I have no idea what any of these alternative methods are so I can't vouch for them. I guess if the OP is opposed to them than he should consider withdrawing his direct support and going with another option ie. charity support. What the family chooses to do is another story.

[bossy22]

My father went to Mexico after doctors told him to get his affairs in order and said treatment wasn't going to help. They gave him 2 months tops to live. He went to the clinic in Mexico because of the success Jamie Platz had, the young boy the oilers helped send there. (Jamie's cancer came back a couple years later and he passed away). Anyways my dad lived another 2 years before he passed. Did Mexico really help? Was it Placebo? Who knows. All I know is I got an extra 2 years with my dad.

[wookster]

Crappy situation and its sad to hear about someone so young having cancer. Im with the others above in that if they are just looking for a small donation than I would go for it even though I am with your thinking in that a "crackpot" doctor or clinic would not actually have a cure. My reasoning is that what you are buying them is a bit of hope where otherwise there is none, and even a little bit of hope gives them a fighting chance (however small) whereas if they have no hope at all, there is no chance at all.

$100 is a night at the pub so using a little throw away money isn't a big deal.

Of course, i don't know your financial situation so you would have to decide what a cutoff amount would be and I'm sure they would understand that you can only give so much...

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Bogus cures from shady clinics in Mexico or Eastern Europe will contribute absolutely nothing to the daughter's chances of survival. The scumbags who run those places are parasites who prey upon desperate people and should be treated as such.

If there was actually any medical validity whatsoever to these "cures", don't you think doctors in more reputable hospitals and clinics would be using them?

Well, not necessarily. I posted the link to the story in the Naturopath thread, but an example I can think of was there was usage of arsenic to treat a type of cancer called APL in China for years that wasn't known in North America until somewhat recently.

Article about it

So even though it eventually makes its way here, it doesn't always mean that Canada/USA necessarily is at the forefront of treatments for all conditions.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by CarlW

Well, not necessarily. I posted the link to the story in the Naturopath thread, but an example I can think of was there was usage of arsenic to treat a type of cancer called APL in China for years that wasn't known in North America until somewhat recently.

Article about it

So even though it eventually makes its way here, it doesn't always mean that Canada/USA necessarily is at the forefront of treatments for all conditions.

Your article discusses Chinese medical researchers performing scientific experiments in a lab and publishing their findings in a peer-reviewed journal. I lend that much more credence than I do to any form of non-scientific "natural" or "traditional" medicine.

[Canada 02]

funny, the real medicines did not ellicit a positive placebo effect, but the fake ones will?

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Your article discusses Chinese medical researchers performing scientific experiments in a lab and publishing their findings in a peer-reviewed journal. I lend that much more credence than I do to any form of non-scientific "natural" or "traditional" medicine.

First their research was based on a Traditional Chinese Medicine, second I gave it as an example saying it was possible that a clinic in another part of the world would have treatments available that have a positive effect that isn't available/known about in North America. I am not saying that 100% for sure to recommend their neighbours daughter, without proper research into what they're getting into, fly to Clinic Chernobyl for mysterious treatments for thousands of dollars.