The Dark Knight Rises: July 20, 2012

[GreenLantern]

The only really big plothole for me was the whole faked death. How did Bruce know he was going to get a chance to carry the bomb out of Gotham to make it look like he'd been blown up by it, if the whole plan was to re-attach the the core and disarm it?

Originally Posted by SebC

Spoiler!

No auto-pilot would seem like something Bruce would want fixed even if he wasn't planning to fake his own death, and he wouldn't really have any reason to tell people either (it was in the logs, so on the other hand he wasn't really being secretive).

Because he is Batman. And Batman knew they would flood the reactor.

Because he is Batman. Not being sarcastic here that is the gods honest truth. Batman is separated from the rest by being the smartest man with the greatest foresight in the DCU. Thats how he can take on guys like Darkseid who are essentially Gods, and win.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Map of Gotham from No Man's Land.

Spoiler!

Wait a minute... all those bridges... Bridge City... they got it wrong! Gotham isn't New York... ITS SASKATOON!!

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Wait a minute... all those bridges... Bridge City... they got it wrong! Gotham isn't New York... ITS SASKATOON!!

It would certainly explain why it is such a wretched hive of scum and villainy.

[J pold]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I'd be willing to argue that Nolan's portrayal of Kyle might be the most true to the comics we've seen.

This was a first thought when leaving the movie. We’ve seen a lot of classic Batman characters in the Nolan universe but Selina Kyle/Catwoman was by far the most true to the comic. I wonder if she took some of her inspiration for the character from the Arkham City video game, both manifestations of Catwoman were nearly identical in personality, and make the same choice (i.e. stick around in a troubled situation and save Batman, or just leave and never be heard from again).

Either way, wherever she got it from was perfect because she nailed the role.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by J pold

This was a first thought when leaving the movie. We’ve seen a lot of classic Batman characters in the Nolan universe but Selina Kyle/Catwoman was by far the most true to the comic. I wonder if she took some of her inspiration for the character from the Arkham City video game, both manifestations of Catwoman were nearly identical in personality, and make the same choice (i.e. stick around in a troubled situation and save Batman, or just leave and never be heard from again).

Either way, wherever she got it from was perfect because she nailed the role.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I didn't interpret his post as saying that she was the most faithful character of all of them, but that this was the best Catwoman representation. Either way they are both possibly true.


Also, I'm gonna nerd out for a minute here and just say that everything in either of the Batman video games is just a total rip off of the comics so really I think it is more accurate to say that Nolan based her off the comics. Again I'd lean towards The Long Halloween or Dark Victory but there is a lot of Batman stuff I'm not familiar with so there could be better DCU examples.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by J pold

This was a first thought when leaving the movie. We’ve seen a lot of classic Batman characters in the Nolan universe but Selina Kyle/Catwoman was by far the most true to the comic. I wonder if she took some of her inspiration for the character from the Arkham City video game, both manifestations of Catwoman were nearly identical in personality, and make the same choice (i.e. stick around in a troubled situation and save Batman, or just leave and never be heard from again).

Either way, wherever she got it from was perfect because she nailed the role.

She is also the easiest character to keep true to the comics within the universe that Nolan built.

In the comics she is by far the most "real-world" villain and she really fit naturally into the "real-world" universe that Nolan is trying to build.

[trackercowe]

http://screenrant.com/anne-hathaway-...-movie?_r=true

Hathaway is game for a spin-off, which makes perfect sense to me. However it would likely have to be more of a prequel/origin story, as her story in the DKR could be easily tarnished if she continues on as Catwoman after the ending.

[GreenLantern]

A prequel wouldn't be a horrible idea.. there is a lot of room for back story.

A quick trip to wikipedia confirms the Year One story telling of her abusive alcoholic father raising her into a life of prostitution.

The problem is her biggest adversary is Batman.. and how do you keep him out of the movie? They could make it a tie in to the JLU movie, introduce the Black Mask or something like that as the villain..

But then again everyone is talking about how nobody will be able to add up to Nolan's Batman.. in the same sense how can one hope to match Jean-Christophe Comar's Catwoman?

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

I would also like to add that Bane/Talia/Selena were all played very well as villains, but none hold a candle to Heaths performance as the Joker.

I feel like this is why for many it just wasn't as good. You can't perfect perfection.

That being said, Hathaway did really blow me away as Selena Kyle, I was not expecting that at all. And Bane had a great personality which I was scared Nolan might skip over. In the comics he is a real treat to follow.

Thats not really fair as the Joker is the best villain in all of comicdom!

One villain that has been underrated was Two-Face. That was a pretty awesome performance given by Eckhart but was totally overshadowed by Ledger.

[Coach]

Some cool Batman stories over at IGN. First chapter of TDKR novelization (Bane's intro), for those who could understand him, its in writing. Also a forward for a book by Nolan about his experience making the trilogy. Pretty cool. Plus all the Bat-toys.

[YYC in LAX]

For any dork fans out there, I picked up this book yesterday and it looks pretty promising. Stunning art and a great behind the scenes look at Nolan's Trilogy.

$28 online at Chapters
$45 in store at Chapters, WTF

http://www.amazon.com/The-Making-Dar.../dp/1419703692

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Art-Making-Dark-Knight-Trilogy-Jesser-Pourroy-Kidd/9781419703690-item.html?ikwid=making+dark+knight\&ikwsec=Home

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by YYC in LAX

For any dork fans out there, I picked up this book yesterday and it looks pretty promising. Stunning art and a great behind the scenes look at Nolan's Trilogy.

$28 online at Chapters
$45 in store at Chapters, WTF

http://www.amazon.com/The-Making-Dar.../dp/1419703692

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Art-Making-Dark-Knight-Trilogy-Jesser-Pourroy-Kidd/9781419703690-item.html?ikwid=making+dark+knight\&ikwsec=Home

They have this at costco. I think it's $20 there. or $24. Anyways it's still way less than whats at chapters and you get it right away.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Yes and yes, didn't mind seeing her ride the bat bike.

No kidding. Seeing her bend over that batbike...or ride the thing. Seemed to get her into a rather appealing posture.

His name was Robin, so I am guessing he is Robin. Nightwing was also a Robin at one point. We won't find out because Nolan has retired from the Batman franchise. If you desire more Nolan related comic book stories, see Man of Steel (produced by Nolan) out next Summer.

True, but he didn't/doesn't seem to like his given name. Nightwing is the older version of the original Robin, and he seemed like he'd be in the right age bracket for it. But if Bruce is really gone...he'd also be the one who took up the mantle after Bruce left it.

Or it's a movie set in a fictional city within the story? Don't look too far into these things guys, enjoy the story. If you want to start comparing the movie to the comics as well it will all fall apart. Just take it for what it is and have fun with it.

Oh, I know. I was just having some fun with numbers. It was something my buddies and I were talking about when leaving the movie theatre last night. "What was the most unrealistic part of that movie for you?" For me, it was "How could an island roughly the size of Manhattan only have 4000 or so cops on it?" Which led to us wondering how many cops WOULD be in a place like that, and so on and so forth. So I did the math so I could mention it to my buddies next time.

[Meelapo]

Originally Posted by YYC in LAX

Saw it again tonight. Enjoyed it more this time as I decided to forget all the plot holes. Nolan's storytelling is absolutely terrific. The movies score is fantastic. Hans Zimmer is an amazing artist.
Never had a problem with Bane's dialogue nor did the people I watched it with. Loved it.

Empire Theatre IMAX sound is far superior to that of Chinook. The audio experience was vastly different.

I wish I knew that. We went to see Batman at Chinook this evening in IMAX and I think it was like 35 degrees in the theatre. It was incredibly hot and kind of ruined the movie.

My only complaint about it was I couldn't really understand what Bane was saying have the time.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Just saw it. Thoroughly entertained for close to three hours. Wicked movie.

[Deegee]

Saw it last night. I know it was an epic movie because I didn't even realize it was near 3 hours at the end of the movie!

[Cecil Terwilliger]

In the last 2 nights I've watched Batman Begins and TDK both.

Some thoughts:

BB:

-really solid flick. probably has the most sensical and linear plot of all the films. I'll touch more on this with regards to TDK.

-Nolan did a tremendous job of making sure that the trilogy had a fairly seemless transition from film to film, complaints about the differences in the cities for filming notwithstanding. So many hints about the future movies, themes, conflicts etc that are established here.

-Bale looked quite a bit heavier in this film. His face was fuller.

-Bale's growly voice wasn't as heavy in this one. He really picked it up in the TDK.

-Katie Holmes is never going to win an academy award but I preferred her to Maggie Gylenhall. In hindsight that was terrible casting. More on that later.

-Crane is a bit misplaced. He never truly becomes the scarecrow until the end of the movie but prior to that he's just a really crooked psychiatrist. Just doesn't feel totally natural the way he goes from crooked psychiatrist to crazed villain, and I'm not talking about when he goes crazy, I mean when we first see him wear the mask. He just didn't seem that evil before and now we find out he's in league with Ra's. Minor quibble.

-I never really liked the Tumbler vehicle but now that I'm used to it I appreciated the chase seen when he's trying to save Rachel that much more. (except for the fact he would have killed about a dozen cops)

-Speaking of his car the only thing I still find insultingly stupid is the fact that he goes into this weird laying down position when weapons systems are activated. God that is so stupid when he does it and when Gordon does it.


TDK:

-Ok I'm gonna warn everyone. I'm about to absolutely trash this movie. After watching BB again, I realized that there are certain things I like better about TDK but it's really a mediocre film with a stupid stupid plot and BB is way better.

-Love the first 35 mins or so. Starts very strong. Right up to the point where the Joker starts killing people to get Batman to reveal himself.

-Then it is all downhill from there or at least the next hour is all downhill. I'll talk more later on how I can love this movie but also find it terrible. But it starts going downhill when Batman finds the dead guys in the appartment and their names combine to form Harvey Dent.

-The whole scene with the bullet testing and the fingerprints makes no sense and is quite stupid. In fact it is pointless. Like many other things in this movie Nolan needed a means to an end but the way he filled in the gaps is ######ed.

-So Wayne finds these fingerprints and heads to the appartment where he watches the Joker try and kill the mayor. Why he didn't dress up as Batman is beyond me.

-Not to mention how stupid it is that the Joker was able to plant himself in like row 3 of the cops and not get noticed.

-If they knew there was going to be an attempt on the Mayor's life, why in the hell would they leave him out in the open? Furthermore, when did they plan to fake Gordon's death? Did Batman even know they'd do that? Awful big risk by Gordon there. Minor quibble compared to the stupidity of the Joker being out in broad daylight and not being noticed though.

-Oh going back here but the whole sonar cell phone thing is stupid. Especially when fox uses it in Hong Kong or wherever Lau was hanging out.

-Now we're at one of the stupidest thought out scenes in film history. So they capture the Joker. Very cool fight scene leading up to that but - and that's a major but - it is so ######ed the way they get in trouble while transporting Dent.

-First, why not use an effing helicopter? How stupid. Second, Joker starts a fire and forces them to divert. Once again, how effing stupid. As if they couldn't have just gone around? Or found another above groud route. Why trap yourself? The cop even complains that they'll be sitting ducks. Then why are you doing it moron!!!!!!

-Ok so Joker is caught and they interogate him. Yet another scene that I could watch over and over. At least right up until it goes full ######.

-So the Joker is trapped in this room. Instead of just leaving him in there, for some bizarre, stupid reason they decide to put a cop INSIDE the cell with him. Think about how stupid this is!!! An unarmed cop no less, WTF?!?

-Once again, and like I said I'll touch on this at the end, Nolan needed a gap filling scene. He knew the end result of that scene but didn't know how to get there. So unfortunately he uses a stunningly stupid device to make it happen. God that scene pisses me off.

-I'm gonna jump back again real quick to the scene in Bruce's penthouse. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Once again Nolan wants a scene with Rachel and Batman saving her but doesn't really think through the logic. So Bruce locks Dent in a closet. Joker comes looking for Harvey. Jumps out window with Rachel and when they land she says "Is Harvey safe?" WTF woman? You saw Bruce lock him in a closet! And the worst part is Batman says ####ing YES!! Really? So now the Joker is alone in your penthouse with your guests. He starts searching the place for Harvey, it's not gonna take him long to figure out that the closet with the bar across it is where Harvey is. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

-I bought his yearning for rachel much more in the first one. They just didn't have any chemistry here. I found myself not caring when she died. That's bad.

From there to the end there are some things I don't like (the prisoners on the boat is so dumb and so is the sonar crap) but for the most part it is stuff I can live with.

It is that middle third of the movie that really just falls apart. How I see it is that Nolan knew what themes and conflicts he wanted to explore. Batman's one rule, the chaos of the Joker, balancing Batman with his desire for a real life (although again I don't like the new Rachel, I just didn't feel the love from Bruce to her), human nature, being corruptable etc.

The problem is that Nolan simply didn't have a very good Joker story. The plot of the movie is at times extremely stupid. And not just the overall plot but the way that the plot logically (or illogically in TDK's case) is tied together with the next scene. It is basically a collection of deadly scenes with amazing performances and a great score but the way the scenes fit together seems like a poor attempt at connect the dots. What do I mean by that?

Think of the movie as a timeline. Nolan knew he wanted to have certain scenes or events happen at various points of the movie. He needed these either because they were cool or they helped him showcase some of those themes/messages/conflicts I just mentioned. The problem is that when he was connecting the dots the filler he used to connect them was piss poor.

He could have found a better way to fake Gordon's death, the barrels of gasoline on the boats could have been better, same with the excuse to get the prisoners on the ferry in the first place. The Joker could have bombed MCU (I think that's what they call it) and escaped in a much more sensical way.

Even the part where Dent gets kidnapped because the cop driving his car was crooked was kinda dumb to me. Just didn't like it.

All in all it has by far the best performances. Heath Ledger, nuff said. But it also has the worst story. Just because the Joker is a chaotic character who doesn't make sense doesn't mean your film has to be nonsensical.

Like I said, it seemed like Nolan knew where he wanted to go, he just couldn't find a good way to get there. Really muddles up the film. It has so many cool scenes, cool lines, interactions, messages, themes, characters etc but they are poorly tied together and the result is a very deep movie and a very cool one but story wise it is bad.

I felt somewhat the same about Inception but the thing was it is such a complex film that those weak ties between plot points or scenes are almost easily forgiven because basis of the film seems to mitigate those jumps in logic. Not in TDK.


I'm not gonna say anything about TDKR until I can do so without emotion. I want to try and have an objective take on the film and I'm not ready for that yet. Oh, except that I'll say that in my mind I hear "Dick Grayson" not Robin. Stab in the heart after all the ways Nolan had honored the comics and made us geeks feel warm and fuzzy and then he does that. Gross.

[Tinordi]

The more I think about the movie the less I think of it.

The script was not tight at all. Pacing and structure just didn't work. Bane was done poorly. Action was remedial. The mid movie interlude was just confusing. Quite mediocre, undoubtedly the worst movie of the series. You could tell the Nolans were mailing this one in and that Christopher had grown quite tired of the series by the time they finished shooting.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Quick shout out to one of my favorite scenes that got missed or forgotten previously.

When Bruce is about to dive off the boat and go retrieve Lau he asks Alfred (who's on a boat with the Russian Ballet) if he'll be ok on his own (or something to that effect).

Alfred responds "what's russian for put on your own damn sunscreen" meanwhile we see the hottie in the back calling him over for a fresh application. Loved it.

[cDnStealth]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

In the last 2 nights I've watched Batman Begins and TDK both.

Some thoughts:

Most of the time I feel like I am the only one who actually thinks Batman Begins was the better film. While I don't necessarily agree with your dissection of TDK I generally feel that the movie gets more appreciation simply because Ledger did a phenomenal job. I sometimes wonder if it would be as widely praised if he hadn't died. I did really enjoy TDK though. Most of points you bring up are things that I generally don't have an issue with.