I saw the movie this afternoon. I enjoyed it. I found that TDKR was more emotionally heavy than TDK. But I think TDK was a better movie.
Spoiler!
I think my favorite part was when Bane's revolution starts happening. I thought to myself these is pretty much the Reign of Terror from The French Revolution. Then seeing Crane act as a member of the Committee of Public Safety was perfect.
Spoiler!
Crane and Alfred stole the movie for me. They both did a perfect job for supporting actors...
On a side note, doesn't that make Crane/Scarecrow the only villain to appear in all 3 films? Even if he isn't really a villain here?
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Here's the thing that's been bugging me since I saw the opening 10 minutes.
Spoiler!
When we first see Wayne it's mentioned that he's become a shut-in. Batman has done absolutely nothing for 8 years because Bruce's leg is messed up. Now I have to assume his leg was ruined from the fall he took when taking out Two Face but he ran off at the end of TDK and looked more than fine to me. I mean I got the impression that Batman would continue fighting criminals with the police doing everything to take him down.
Spoiler!
Yeah, it kind of cheapens the ending of TDK. I suppose in universe you could reference The Dent Act allowing Gordon to have the power to clean up the streets. But I agree with you.
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Originally Posted by Locke
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
Yeah, it kind of cheapens the ending of TDK. I suppose in universe you could reference The Dent Act allowing Gordon to have the power to clean up the streets. But I agree with you.
Spoiler!
His knee had no cartilage left, it likely had nothing to do with the fall he took. To wear down all the cartilage you need a significant knee injury that didn't heal properly and over time the cartilage wears away or you need to have overused the knee so much that your knee is now like a 70 year olds. My guess is that from all of the landings from the air, kicking, blocking, running Batman did he simply over used his knee and wore the cartilage away. Being Batman would be very hard on your body, look at all the bumps, cuts and bruises Bruce always had.
The Dent act allowed the cops and DA to put all the mobs in jail, other than the mob it was just regular crimes going on that Batman never had anything to do with anyway. With the mob gone, Crane (and possibly Joker) in jail, Two Face is dead so there was no criminals of Batman's "equal" to go after. It's not like Batman was going to go running around stopping B and E's or car thefts. Catwoman was flying under the radar, even though she was making news she wasn't more than a cat burglar so not enough to make Batman come back.
Last edited by Hockeyguy15; 07-23-2012 at 09:00 AM.
The Dent act allowed the cops and DA to put all the mobs in jail, other than the mob it was just regular crimes going on that Batman never had anything to do with anyway. With the mob gone, Crane (and possibly Joker) in jail, Two Face is dead so there was no criminals of Batman's "equal" to go after. It's not like Batman was going to go running around stopping B and E's or car thefts. Catwoman was flying under the radar, even though she was making news she wasn't more than a cat burglar so not enough to make Batman come back.
Like I said....
Spoiler!
The Dent act was the in universe answer. But that's not how I saw the ending of the TDK to go. That Batman would retire as result of taking the fall for Dent.
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Originally Posted by Locke
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
Yeah, it kind of cheapens the ending of TDK. I suppose in universe you could reference The Dent Act allowing Gordon to have the power to clean up the streets. But I agree with you.
Spoiler!
Not only does it cheapen the ending of TDK but it also cheapens the character of Bruce Wayne/Batman. One of the defining moments in that film for Wayne was during the Joker killings where Alfred says:
Quote:
Endure, Master Wayne. Take it. They'll hate you for it, but that's the point of Batman, he can be the outcast. He can make the choice that no one else can make, the right choice.
So at the end of the film he chooses to take the blame for those cop killings and that is totally fine. But for Bruce to just sit around for 8 years doing nothing after that point is really strange. It would have made sense for Batman to still be out there fighting crime despite Gotham's hatred towards him. It's especially weird given that all it takes for him to get back out there is to throw that thing on his leg. Yes he gets beat down by Bane but after a short training montage he's back in form and better than ever.
Not only does it cheapen the ending of TDK but it also cheapens the character of Bruce Wayne/Batman. One of the defining moments in that film for Wayne was during the Joker killings where Alfred says:
So at the end of the film he chooses to take the blame for those cop killings and that is totally fine. But for Bruce to just sit around for 8 years doing nothing after that point is really strange. It would have made sense for Batman to still be out there fighting crime despite Gotham's hatred towards him. It's especially weird given that all it takes for him to get back out there is to throw that thing on his leg. Yes he gets beat down by Bane but after a short training montage he's back in form and better than ever.
Not really a spoiler, so I won't tag it...I think you are forgetting that at the end of TDK that all the mob guys are already arrested and waiting to go to trial. So really the streets of Gotham are already cleaned up at the end of TDK, once Joker and Two Face were gone there was nothing left for Batman to do.
Question for those who have seen it, does ULTRAAVX do it justice or should I just wait and see it in IMAX.
I had tickets for IMAX opening night but had to give them away after I got hit with a bad cold and didn't want to be the guy coughing and sniffling through the whole movie. Now it looks like IMAX is pretty much sold out until Thursday.
Question for those who have seen it, does ULTRAAVX do it justice or should I just wait and see it in IMAX.
I had tickets for IMAX opening night but had to give them away after I got hit with a bad cold and didn't want to be the guy coughing and sniffling through the whole movie. Now it looks like IMAX is pretty much sold out until Thursday.
I saw it in ULTRAAVX, it was good but I still want to see it in IMAX.
Not really a spoiler, so I won't tag it...I think you are forgetting that at the end of TDK that all the mob guys are already arrested and waiting to go to trial. So really the streets of Gotham are already cleaned up at the end of TDK, once Joker and Two Face were gone there was nothing left for Batman to do.
The mobs were never really the threat in any of the Batman films. They were always more a symptom of Gotham's rottenness. Yes, a lot of the mob was arrested but the DA's key witness was killed by the Joker in TDK. Even if they were convicted and jailed there are always people ready and willing to take over. It seemed far too rosy for crime to magically disappear in 8 short years because of the Dent Act.
It's Nolan's interpretation and he was free to do whatever he wanted with the character but I just found the transition between the two films very jarring and not in keeping with what had already been established. TDK ended with hope vanishing. Dent was dead, the Joker had wreaked havoc on Gotham and Batman was now vilified. I don't know about anyone else but I didn't think Gotham was headed towards good times after watching that film.
Saw it last night. I think I need to see it again, due to being seated next to the most annoying theatre person ever. The dude laughed at everything, and a loud obnoxious laugh. Laughed through Bane's whole speech thing, laughed at people getting kicked by Batman, laughed at the Kid singing the anthem. There were also about 5 people around me that checked their stupid phones every 5 minutes, and I think the brightness was set to "Sun" it pissed me off that I couldn't really get into the movie....
Now onto some random thoughts...
Spoiler!
I would agree that its predecessor is probably the better movie. There was just so much going on in this film that it kind of took away from the core concept of the film, which I thought was excellent.
When he came back, he wasn't Batman, he was just a broken and frail Bruce Wayne in the cape and cowl. He had lost the fear and anger that made him Batman in the first place. Thus Bane made short work of him. Then in the pit he gets his mojo back. That concept is awesome and is what Batman is all about.
The 2 fights with Bane were epic, end of story, my favorite parts of the movie. Though It was kind of weird how Bane didn't get the ending he deserved.
Even though it was pretty obvious during casting that JGL was possible Robin, and Tate was in fact Talia, they had me convinced later on that they were in fact original characters. So I did not see either of those twists coming. Nolan handled them perfectly.
Even though the ending was near perfect, I thought it was kind of weird that at Bruce's "Funeral" Alfred is balling his eyes out, and then when he sees him in a cafe, its just a friendly nod from a distance, not "Holy crap you're alive?!"
Its kind of hard to judge, because the core concept and depth of characters and twists had the potential to make it the best of the 3 films, but the overloaded plot I think dragged it down a bit.
The Dent act was the in universe answer. But that's not how I saw the ending of the TDK to go. That Batman would retire as result of taking the fall for Dent.
This has nothing to do with your spoiler.
Did that guy ever respond to the fact that pretty much every single guess that you and others made was pretty much exactly what happened in the movie?
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Not only does it cheapen the ending of TDK but it also cheapens the character of Bruce Wayne/Batman. One of the defining moments in that film for Wayne was during the Joker killings where Alfred says:
So at the end of the film he chooses to take the blame for those cop killings and that is totally fine. But for Bruce to just sit around for 8 years doing nothing after that point is really strange. It would have made sense for Batman to still be out there fighting crime despite Gotham's hatred towards him. It's especially weird given that all it takes for him to get back out there is to throw that thing on his leg. Yes he gets beat down by Bane but after a short training montage he's back in form and better than ever.
It isn't strange at all. He is devastated at the loss of Rachel and that is why Bruce doesn't do anything for 8 years, he doesn't care about anything else. He says this at the beginning of the movie and it is why
Spoiler!
Alfred leaves. Alfred confesses about burning the letter and Bruce still thinks they were going to be together.
Not sure how this cheapens the ending of TDK.
This next comment isn't targeting you, more so this entire thread, but do some of you not listen to the dialogue in the movie? So many of peoples problems with the film or "plot holes" are explained.
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It isn't strange at all. He is devastated at the loss of Rachel and that is why Bruce doesn't do anything for 8 years, he doesn't care about anything else. He says this at the beginning of the movie and it is why
Spoiler!
Alfred leaves. Alfred confesses about burning the letter and Bruce still thinks they were going to be together.
Not sure how this cheapens the ending of TDK.
This next comment isn't targeting you, more so this entire thread, but do some of you not listen to the dialogue in the movie? So many of peoples problems with the film or "plot holes" are explained.
I know you said that wasn't entirely directed at me but I still feel the need to respond. I already know the reasons why they said he became a shut in. I know why Alfred left. I watched the movie and I listened to what the characters said. Just because I don't agree with the direction Nolan took the movie doesn't mean I don't understand it. I say it's strange because (as Yeah Baby and I have explained) it doesn't seem like TDK is all wrapped up in a nice little bow at the end. I don't get the impression from watching the film that Gotham is going to be crime free in 8 years and that Batman won't have done a damn thing in that time. I didn't say it was a plot hole (because it is explained) but it's definitely something I didn't like about the movie.
As someone who was at the trilogy screening, and after reading some of the comments on what people did/didnt like, I really think that watching them all in a row is the way to do it. It takes a commitment, but if you're going to see it again, I suggest watching the other two immediately before. It plays as if it's one movie and IMO makes it much better.
There are plot holes and issues in all 3 movies, but as a whole they are a great series and they mesh together very nicely. I think it would be a mistake for WB to reboot the franchise any quicker than 10 years from now. I wouldn't mind seeing it carry on in the hands of another director with a Nightwing/Batman Beyond type direction, but I dont even want to see that for another 5 years at least.
These movies changed the way not only comic book movies are made, but big budget action movies in general. It shows that the people appreciate quality and that big budget doesnt have to equal lack of story.
I really think WB is better to wait for a JL movie. The market is too saturated with super hero flicks and I really think that by the time avengers 2 finishes, people will start getting sick of these movies right when JLA begins to take shape and they will completely miss the boat. Just my feeling.
I also think that Man of Steel NEEDS to be good. They missed the mark with Green Lantern, and what they need is a good benchmark film that builds enough fan base to launch a whole universe. Batman could have been this but they took too long to get it started.
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Last edited by Coach; 07-23-2012 at 07:48 PM.
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If JL is planned for 2015, the earliest we would see a Batman movie would be 2016 but probably 2017-2018 range, thats over five years and IMO the right amount of time.
Nolan did a great job with the franchise. I was pretty hard on him for the first few movies, but I was really sold on Bruce Wayne/Batman in the third, and you are right I looked at it as a whole. A lot of people can't understand why he just sat around for 8 years.. if they knew who Batman was and how passionate he was about his symbol they would understand. Nolan got that, he understood that this is what Bruce Wayne was, Batman.
The scene with JGL where he talks about wearing a smile as a mask, and recognizing Bruce's smile right away is what turned me around on the whole series. Bruce Wayne is a shell that Batman fills when he needs to, Nolan nailed that.
I still look forward to the nexd take on Batman. I have a feeling the next go around might be more silver city type Batman than Dark Knight. Nobody will ever match what Nolan did so nobody will try.
__________________ "In brightest day, in blackest night / No evil shall escape my sight / Let those who worship evil's might / Beware my power, Green Lantern's light!"
Not only does it cheapen the ending of TDK but it also cheapens the character of Bruce Wayne/Batman. One of the defining moments in that film for Wayne was during the Joker killings where Alfred says:
So at the end of the film he chooses to take the blame for those cop killings and that is totally fine. But for Bruce to just sit around for 8 years doing nothing after that point is really strange. It would have made sense for Batman to still be out there fighting crime despite Gotham's hatred towards him. It's especially weird given that all it takes for him to get back out there is to throw that thing on his leg. Yes he gets beat down by Bane but after a short training montage he's back in form and better than ever.
They pretty much explain away why Wayne has become a shut-in by arguing he never got over Rachel's death, which is believable.
What wasn't believable was how he can barely walk at the start, but then the Magic Knee Brace of Awesomeness makes it all better!
And yeah, dropping use of spoiler tags since really, anyone coming to this thread should know that everyone is talking about what they saw.
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