Shooting at Movie screening of TDKR in Colorado

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

The argument that banning certain categories of guns won't stop killing, meaning that it's pointless to do it is a ridiculous one.

Capital punishment doesn't stop killing, so why use it?

For that matters, all our nations laws fail to stop crime, so why have them?

It's a dumb argument.

Yep, it's about reduction, not complete elimination.

Banning these type of guns won't stop psychopaths from killing, but logic states that it would at least seriously reduce the amount of damage possible. Chance are he might show up with a handgun or a knife instead.....someone still might get hurt, but it won't be 70 effin people all in a few minutes. Or the guy might try to build a working bomb, which in all likelihood he would fail to do, or would blow up before he had a chance to use it.

The harder you make it to get something, the better the chances are that people will look at other options, or at the very least draw out the process to the point where authorities might catch wind.

[Caged Great]

If assault weapons were not easily available, this guy might have had the shotgun and a pair of handguns lets say. So instead of having 70 people shot, you might have 15 at the most. Now that's not to say that 15 isn't horrific but it sure is a lot better than 70.

Crazy people are going to do crazy things, but mitigating their access makes the #'s of dead + injured drop significantly

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Yep, it's about reduction, not complete elimination.

Banning these type of guns won't stop psychopaths from killing, but logic states that it would at least seriously reduce the amount of damage possible. Chance are he might show up with a handgun or a knife instead.....someone still might get hurt, but it won't be 70 effin people all in a few minutes. Or the guy might try to build a working bomb, which in all likelihood he would fail to do, or would blow up before he had a chance to use it.

The harder you make it to get something, the better the chances are that people will look at other options, or at the very least draw out the process to the point where authorities might catch wind.

What your talking about is a ban on semi-auto rifles. There are a ton of these rifles in Canada and the United States and very little violence commited with them. That is a stupid idea.

Why not ban violent movies useing your logic? This guy seemed to be living out the role of joker. Has other mentally unstable people been led to violence by a film character? I'm sure there has and it will happen again.

The fact of the matter is that sometimes people lose it mentally. Maybe we can get better at reconizing the warning signs. Maybe we can't. It is pretty risky to be locking people up for what we think they might do.

This guy could have just as easily decide he needed to blow up a hospital or some other building like his hero the Joker. He could have used a shot gun and had less people wounded but, a higher death count.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Hans Landa

Being a right-winger myself, I agree with this, despite being a Canadian who's never owned or fired a gun, I can certainly appreciate how important they are as a symbol to American freedom in the eyes of true patriots (lefties, in my opinion, are anti-patriots).

Ahh the old guns = freedom argument. Even though in virtually every western country in the world you can obtain a gun, it's just not as easy as in America. Strangely, or perhaps because of this, other countries have fewer incidents of gun violence than America. Also you can get guns in Syria, Iran, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia too, you know, those great symbols of freedom. Things like equal rights and freedom of democracy are much better indicators of freedom than being able to get a gun.

As to lefties being anti-patriots, not sure that one quantifies since usually lefties want to take care of everyone (i.e. the entire country) while usually righties only want to take care of themselves and preach personal responsibility (i.e. screw everyone else).

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Vox

But it's a heck of a lot harder to kill 12 and wound 71 with a knife.

If you banned guns or made it extremely tough to get them legally, it would simple become a very big black market and people would still get access to them.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Why not ban violent movies useing your logic? This guy seemed to be living out the role of joker. Has other mentally unstable people been led to violence by a film character? I'm sure there has and it will happen again.

At the end of the day we have to figure at how much risk we (we in this case being US citizens) are willing to take. Thousands of people die from driving every year, but clearly society has decided that the benefits of driving far out weight the risks. So we clearly are ok with death on some level. But there's a tangible benefit to driving...and movies.

What's the benefit of assault rifles again? That we can protect ourselves on the off-chance the King of England invades?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Thor

If you banned guns or made it extremely tough to get them legally, it would simple become a very big black market and people would still get access to them.

Yes, but that's another barrier to get past that a lot of people would not cross. Do you think every nerdlinger PhD student would start calling up the Russian mafia?

Again, it's not about getting rid of all violence. That's impossible. But it is possible to reduce the damage.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Simple solution to illegal guns would be make the punishment life in prison for owning or selling one. I think outside of gangs, only the most extreme people would take the risk of owning one.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

I haven't read the whole thread, but I know there's a gun debate going in here.

I just wanted to chip in and say there are several academic articles that suggest a nation's actions influence the way its citizens act. In other words, what the United States do overseas influences the general mentality, and therefore actions, of its citizens.

Now, I'm not saying this is the sole reason massacres like Columbine and this issue happen. However, it's just another possible explanation for why events like this happen. The United States throughout history have been one of the most violent nations in the world and that those violent actions overseas have permeated the general American culture.

If we look at the Canadian culture, for example, we don't see a fraction of the amount of violent crimes that the U.S. has. I know, there are numerous factors that go into a massacre like this one, but I thought I'd just throw that out there.

Wasn't the Norway shooting much worse? I didn't realize Norway has an aggressive foreign policy.

69 dead. About 3x as bad as the shooting in Colorado.

[Table 5]

But there isn't a mass shooting in Norway every few months.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Yes, but that's another barrier to get past that a lot of people would not cross. Do you think every nerdlinger PhD student would start calling up the Russian mafia?

Again, it's not about getting rid of all violence. That's impossible. But it is possible to reduce the damage.

Who wanted to commit mass murder? Probably.

Lots of people buy drugs from very shady people who really want to get high. Probably a couple of them in this thread.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I heard on the news last night the US has been averaging 2 mass killings (4+ people) a year since 1999. Guessing other countries aren't anywhere close to that number.

[Thor]

Ah ok, finally we know why these shootings happen, its because we teach evolution in schools, thanks Rick!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Simple solution to illegal guns would be make the punishment life in prison for owning or selling one. I think outside of gangs, only the most extreme people would take the risk of owning one.

Too bad prisons in the US are already overcrowded as is.

[Senator Clay Davis]

^Not to turn this into another topic, but I think we know of ways to alieviate that problem.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I heard on the news last night the US has been averaging 2 mass killings (4+ people) a year since 1999. Guessing other countries aren't anywhere close to that number.

Homicide rates are at 1950 levels though. Been dropping for years IIRC.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Who wanted to commit mass murder? Probably.

Lots of people buy drugs from very shady people who really want to get high. Probably a couple of them in this thread.

Probably is still better than certainly. Banning assault rifles won't stop people from being murderers, but the more barriers you put in between them, the harder it gets. Honestly, stopping only a few of these types of events would be worth it. Especially when I'm still not sure what the benefit of having the around is.

Btw, there's a big difference between recreational drugs and assault rifles. There's not going to be a Badger on every street corner selling them out of his jacket. It's going to take crap load more effort (and money) to buy.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

^Not to turn this into another topic, but I think we know of ways to alieviate that problem.

If you get rid of the War on Drugs and stop handing out dumb prison sentences you probably get rid of a LOT of illegal firearms, and reduce the amount of people in prison. Win/win.

Too bad that won't ever happen though.

I read a super-interesting article that said that the militarization of our local law enforcement had a lot of do with the 'culture' problem in the US, including gun violence. I'll have to find it. Didn't really agree with it, but the author had a point.

[Azure]

The article I was talking about.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/15304...gs?page=entire

Just like in Columbia, these drug raids are typically staged in the middle of the night by officers equipped similarly to those depicted in the video: Darth Vader–style Kevlar helmets and body armor, black uniforms, military boots, night vision goggles. The officers are armed with automatic weapons and are sometimes deployed from armored personnel carriers or rappelling from helicopters. Doors are smashed open with battering rams or are ripped from their hinges by ropes tied to vehicles. And, to further disorient those inside, officers are trained to use explosives—“flash-bang” grenades—upon entry. The slightest provocation, including any “furtive” moments on the part of the residents, often results in shots fired.

Sound familiar?

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Thor

Ah ok, finally we know why these shootings happen, its because we teach evolution in schools, thanks Rick!

What kind of animals senselessly butcher their own species?