Acupuncture (Or other back-pain methods)

[Coach]

Hello CP here's the deal,

I am 23 and have had chronic back pain since a hockey injury when I was 16. I have gone through physio, massage, chiro, have seen xrays (nothing) and was just told that my recent MRI showed nothing. I know how I feel and I know that at 23 I shouldn't be almost getting sick from back pain sometimes.

My first thought now is acupuncture, but I am pretty much open to anything. Does anyone have any recomendations for practioners or other methods? I'm not living with this for another 60 years.

[Halfcreek]

I had chronic back pain and went to an Oseopath - he worked miracles. I went from being in pain everyday to going weeks without feeling pain. And their objective is to not see you for months at a time - not to get you back for countless appts. like chiro sometimes does.
I went to Ben at Calgary West Osteopath - his background is with rugby athletes and stuff, so he might even be perfect for you.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Hello CP here's the deal,

I am 23 and have had chronic back pain since a hockey injury when I was 16. I have gone through physio, massage, chiro, have seen xrays (nothing) and was just told that my recent MRI showed nothing. I know how I feel and I know that at 23 I shouldn't be almost getting sick from back pain sometimes.

My first thought now is acupuncture, but I am pretty much open to anything. Does anyone have any recomendations for practioners or other methods? I'm not living with this for another 60 years.

Not to be rude, but are you fit and active? I would spend the money on a trainer instead. If you are fit and active, I would still spend it on a trainer.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Not to be rude, but are you fit and active? I would spend the money on a trainer instead. If you are fit and active, I would still spend it on a trainer.

I am fit and active yes. I work out on a pretty regular basis on my own and have a pretty good knowledge of how to train properly, although not as much as a trainer would have.

[Vex]

Also check out http://www.mobilitywod.com/ and search for any videos related to back pain or posterior chain. Can't recommend it enough.

As far as Acupuncture, its going to feel great right after the session but (at least in my experience) the pain will just come right back again.

[MickMcGeough]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Hello CP here's the deal,

I am 23 and have had chronic back pain since a hockey injury when I was 16. I have gone through physio, massage, chiro, have seen xrays (nothing) and was just told that my recent MRI showed nothing. I know how I feel and I know that at 23 I shouldn't be almost getting sick from back pain sometimes.

My first thought now is acupuncture, but I am pretty much open to anything. Does anyone have any recomendations for practioners or other methods? I'm not living with this for another 60 years.

Don't get me wrong, I love me some acupuncture, but I seriously doubt that's going to give you much more than a temporary reprieve from pain if you have a real injury.

The Sport Medicine Center at U of C is really excellent. I've had a couple of different issues that mystified more than one doctor that got solved there. They're trained in physical therapy, massage, acupuncture, etc. and will know more about soft tissue damage (which you may have since your xrays show nothing) than your average massage therapist or chiropractor.

It can be pricey but I don't know what's more worthy of your dollar.

[troutman]

http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...opics/acu.html

TCM theory and practice are not based upon the body of knowledge related to health, disease, and health care that has been widely accepted by the scientific community. TCM practitioners disagree among themselves about how to diagnose patients and which treatments should go with which diagnoses. Even if they could agree, the TCM theories are so nebulous that no amount of scientific study will enable TCM to offer rational care.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...y/acupuncture/

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...puncture-myth/

Guess what? It doesn’t matter where you put the needle. It doesn’t matter whether you use a needle at all. In the best controlled studies, only one thing mattered: whether the patients believed they were getting acupuncture. If they believed they got the real thing, they got better pain relief – whether they actually got acupuncture or not! If they got acupuncture but believed they didn’t, it was less likely to work. If they didn’t get it but believed they did, it was more likely to work.

http://skepdic.com/acupuncture.html

http://www.painjournalonline.com/art...689-5/abstract

Acupuncture is commonly used for pain control, but doubts about its effectiveness and safety remain. This review was aimed at critically evaluating systematic reviews of acupuncture as a treatment of pain and at summarizing reports of serious adverse effects published since 2000. Literature searches were carried out in 11 databases without language restrictions. Systematic reviews were considered for the evaluation of effectiveness and case series or case reports for summarizing adverse events. Data were extracted according to predefined criteria. Fifty-seven systematic reviews met the inclusion criteria. Four were of excellent methodological quality. Numerous contradictions and caveats emerged. Unanimously positive conclusions from more than one high-quality systematic review existed only for neck pain. Ninety-five cases of severe adverse effects including 5 fatalities were included. Pneumothorax and infections were the most frequently reported adverse effects. In conclusion, numerous systematic reviews have generated little truly convincing evidence that acupuncture is effective in reducing pain. Serious adverse effects continue to be reported.

[meanmachine13]

I got acupuncture when I had severe back/hip/SI joint pain and it worked quite well. I am not sure the technical terminology, but rather than 'normal' acupuncture where they put the needle in and leave it in, my physio would 'tweak' the needles and make my muscles spasm.

[Nage Waza]

I saw a podiatrist and he had special orthotics made for me. My back pain was reduced to the point that I no longer consider it an issue at all.

[Derek Sutton]

Try this out; http://www.innergrowth.ca I know body talk sounds "cooky" but it has worked for me and many others to. It may take a couple of treatments or so but it is not a 30-35 vistit "cure" like seeing a chiropracter. As well, it is non invassive and essentially touch free.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by meanmachine13

I got acupuncture when I had severe back/hip/SI joint pain and it worked quite well. I am not sure the technical terminology, but rather than 'normal' acupuncture where they put the needle in and leave it in, my physio would 'tweak' the needles and make my muscles spasm.

I had this done on my ankle when I had a high ankle sprain. Holy hell did it hurt, but I must admit it did help work the knots out of my calf.

Found it! It's called trigger point acupuncture.
http://www.triggerpointacupuncture.com/

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

I had this done on my ankle when I had a high ankle sprain. Holy hell did it hurt, but I must admit it did help work the knots out of my calf.

Found it! It's called trigger point acupuncture.
http://www.triggerpointacupuncture.com/

It's called IMS.

OP: what did the physio have you do/do to you when you saw them?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

It's called IMS.

OP: what did the physio have you do/do to you when you saw them?

Just some shoulder exercises and stretches mostly. It was pretty soon after the injury and I haven't been back in a while as I waited a YEAR to get into an MRI.

My doctor brought up IMS before but I never checked it out. I've heard some good things.

[scotty2hotty]

I had an Orthopedic Surgeon once tell me that he's never seen a case of idiopathic (no obvious cause) back pain where hip flexibility wasn't an issue.

Stop sitting and stretch those hips, my friend. Especially the hip flexors (top, front of thigh). We were designed to be mobile. Motion is lotion. (As mentioned above ... http://www.mobilitywod.com/ is a terrific resource)

We can rag on complimentary therapies all we like, but the fact remains that pretty much all of them work well for temporary pain relief. If you find acupuncture or anything else will offer you temporary relief, then go for it and use that window of (pain free) opportunity to get some mobility back into your hips.

Don't listen to anyone who tells you that something works or doesn't work (I guess that should include me). As long as it's not dangerous to your health or your wallet, give it a try. Just know that the ultimate resolution of the problem (not just the symptoms) lies with you and your lifestyle.

[RatherDashing]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

I had this done on my ankle when I had a high ankle sprain. Holy hell did it hurt, but I must admit it did help work the knots out of my calf.

Found it! It's called trigger point acupuncture.
http://www.triggerpointacupuncture.com/

I had this done to my calves, as treatment for plantar fasciitis. It did an incredible job of loosening up my legs, but it was also a pretty intense process.

The process is also known as Dry Needling.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

We can rag on complimentary therapies all we like, but the fact remains that pretty much all of them work well for temporary pain relief. If you find acupuncture or anything else will offer you temporary relief, then go for it and use that window of (pain free) opportunity to get some mobility back into your hips.

Don't listen to anyone who tells you that something works or doesn't work (I guess that should include me). As long as it's not dangerous to your health or your wallet, give it a try. Just know that the ultimate resolution of the problem (not just the symptoms) lies with you and your lifestyle.

They do work, to the extent that placebos work.

[meanmachine13]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Just some shoulder exercises and stretches mostly. It was pretty soon after the injury and I haven't been back in a while as I waited a YEAR to get into an MRI.

My doctor brought up IMS before but I never checked it out. I've heard some good things.

My recommendation for anyone on the wait list for an MRI that is also seeing a physio/chiro on a regular basis, with limited results, would be to pay for the private MRI.

I was going to physio 2 - 3 times a week at a cost of roughly $65/session = $130 - $195 a week. Over a year that is basically $10,000 in physio expenses.

My MRI cost me $1300 (I had 2 sections of my body done, so it was twice the price). It determined that my pain wasnt actually something that could be fixed through physio. While it cost me $1300 upfront, it save me almost $9000 in physio expenses in the long run.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by meanmachine13

My recommendation for anyone on the wait list for an MRI that is also seeing a physio/chiro on a regular basis, with limited results, would be to pay for the private MRI.

I was going to physio 2 - 3 times a week at a cost of roughly $65/session = $130 - $195 a week. Over a year that is basically $10,000 in physio expenses.

My MRI cost me $1300 (I had 2 sections of my body done, so it was twice the price). It determined that my pain wasnt actually something that could be fixed through physio. While it cost me $1300 upfront, it save me almost $9000 in physio expenses in the long run.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is the exact opposite as to what the literature says.

Take a peak at this: http://annals.org/article.aspx?volume=154&page=181

From a physio standpoint, MRI results (in most cases) are totally irrelevant as they show many asymptomatic changes, and oftentimes low back pain can't be concretely diagnosed (which I'm sure is frustrating as a patient).

So my advice to anyone with low back pain is to find a GOOD physio. I'm sure this is frustrating as there are a lot of bad ones, but with proper education and spine stabilization, most back pain is gone within 6 weeks.

Here's an example: http://www.beantownphysio.com/pt-tip...stability.html. You can start with those 3 exercises (McGill crunches, bird dog, side bridge), but I highly recommend visiting a PT to get the form down - they can also do a lot for adjunct treatment.

Also: good PTs tend to give you a lot of home exercise and only see you once every 2 - 3 WEEKS.

[simmer2]

A person's treatment methods are so individualistic, it really varies.

For myself, IMS works amazing. It is a more active form of acupuncture and while somewhat uncomfortable, the results are absolutely there.

Take a bunch of opinions, but the best way I feel is to try methods out yourself.

[meanmachine13]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is the exact opposite as to what the literature says.

Take a peak at this: http://annals.org/article.aspx?volume=154&page=181

From a physio standpoint, MRI results (in most cases) are totally irrelevant as they show many asymptomatic changes, and oftentimes low back pain can't be concretely diagnosed (which I'm sure is frustrating as a patient).

So my advice to anyone with low back pain is to find a GOOD physio. I'm sure this is frustrating as there are a lot of bad ones, but with proper education and spine stabilization, most back pain is gone within 6 weeks.

Here's an example: http://www.beantownphysio.com/pt-tip...stability.html. You can start with those 3 exercises (McGill crunches, bird dog, side bridge), but I highly recommend visiting a PT to get the form down - they can also do a lot for adjunct treatment.

Also: good PTs tend to give you a lot of home exercise and only see you once every 2 - 3 WEEKS.

I am all for physio. But I said that if people are seeing a physio with little results, then I recommend just paying for a private MRI rather than continuing with physio for an entire year waiting to get a public MRI.

I saw a physio on and off over 4 years, with my symptoms only getting worse each year and the rate of going to physio increasing each year. I was seeing a physio twice a week for 8 months straight. In the fourth year I finally just paid for the MRI and saved thousands of dollars that I would have continued to spend on physio while waiting for a public MRI.

In many cases, physios can correct the problem. Its the other cases where physio helps but not as much as one would hope, such as in my case. In the end I learned that physio had little to no help in solving my condition.