Stampede 2012

[The Goon]

Originally Posted by J pold

Anyone going to The Oxford Stomp/have an extra ticket for me?

Man, there were some going around the office earlier this week, but today there's no one in the office (imagine that).

If it's like last year, wander around between the bus drop-off area and the entrance.

[Daradon]

So anyone know a sweet spot to catch the fireworks that gives one a view of several of the different locations? Want to check them out on Saturday night.

[maverickstruth]

Originally Posted by Daradon

So anyone know a sweet spot to catch the fireworks that gives one a view of several of the different locations? Want to check them out on Saturday night.

Nose Hill is your best bet in the NW -- unobstructed views of all of them.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by maverickstruth

Nose Hill is your best bet in the NW -- unobstructed views of all of them.

There a bunch of people watching from there?

[jhunt223]

Originally Posted by transplant99

A serious question for you.

What is it that you think occurs when these animals are done with thoroughbred racing?

I assume that they get put down. A serious question for you.. do they snap the hell out of their legs before they do it just for ####s and giggles? It's nice that they euthanize them as quick as possible, but its still completely unnecessary and it's not like they don't suffer at all. All for the sake of "entertainment".

And what makes it worse is that it's not even entertaining unless you're as drunk as your typical stampede going hill billy idiot is. Yes J-Bo.. it is very much red neck, hill billy crap. Nascar with horses. Humiliating.

[Resolute 14]

Horses step into gopher holes in their pasture areas and break their legs too. Or they get spooked and take a fall. It is a truth of life that injuries happen. Broken bones happen. And unfortunately in the case of horses, such broken bones are fatal. Nobody wants to see it, but it happens. Whether on the race track or in normal life.

Actually, I shouldn't say nobody wants to see it. The animal rights activists want to see it. They like watching animals get hurt because it allows them to stand up on their pedestal and browbeat the people they find inferior to themselves.

[Aegypticus]

Originally Posted by jhunt223

And what makes it worse is that it's not even entertaining unless you're as drunk as your typical stampede going hill billy idiot is.

I don't get drunk during Stampede and I've always loved watching the chuckwagon races. I also don't consider myself to be an idiot or a hillbilly.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Horses step into gopher holes in their pasture areas and break their legs too. Or they get spooked and take a fall. It is a truth of life that injuries happen. Broken bones happen. And unfortunately in the case of horses, such broken bones are fatal. Nobody wants to see it, but it happens. Whether on the race track or in normal life.

Actually, I shouldn't say nobody wants to see it. The animal rights activists want to see it. They like watching animals get hurt because it allows them to stand up on their pedestal and browbeat the people they find inferior to themselves.

Thats the sickest part, the activists eat this stuff up.

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Horses step into gopher holes in their pasture areas and break their legs too. Or they get spooked and take a fall. It is a truth of life that injuries happen. Broken bones happen. And unfortunately in the case of horses, such broken bones are fatal. Nobody wants to see it, but it happens. Whether on the race track or in normal life.

Actually, I shouldn't say nobody wants to see it. The animal rights activists want to see it. They like watching animals get hurt because it allows them to stand up on their pedestal and browbeat the people they find inferior to themselves.

But the difference is one is human-nature, the other is strictly for entertainment purposes. Besides allot of these horses die of a ruptured heart, they can't handle these events. Clearly the drivers are pushing them beyond resonable (humane) limits.... for money and show.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Horses step into gopher holes in their pasture areas and break their legs too. Or they get spooked and take a fall. It is a truth of life that injuries happen. Broken bones happen. And unfortunately in the case of horses, such broken bones are fatal. Nobody wants to see it, but it happens. Whether on the race track or in normal life.

Actually, I shouldn't say nobody wants to see it. The animal rights activists want to see it. They like watching animals get hurt because it allows them to stand up on their pedestal and browbeat the people they find inferior to themselves.

Huh? I'm sure the point of the people against stampede is not that horses need to stop getting injured or dying period. Life obviously has hazards, for any living creature, including us.

The point is the rodeo/races are an unneccessary and unsafe activity and exist strictly for our amusement. Which is all true.

I don't even necessarily mind the races or rodeo, but people need to start debating the same argument.

[jhunt223]

Originally Posted by Aegypticus

I don't get drunk during Stampede and I've always loved watching the chuckwagon races. I also don't consider myself to be an idiot or a hillbilly.

Idiot was harsh and uncalled for. But, if you find that stuff entertaining I think you just might have a little hillbilly deep down inside you somewhere.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Horses step into gopher holes in their pasture areas and break their legs too. Or they get spooked and take a fall. It is a truth of life that injuries happen. Broken bones happen. And unfortunately in the case of horses, such broken bones are fatal. Nobody wants to see it, but it happens. Whether on the race track or in normal life.

Actually, I shouldn't say nobody wants to see it. The animal rights activists want to see it. They like watching animals get hurt because it allows them to stand up on their pedestal and browbeat the people they find inferior to themselves.

Stepping in a gopher hole and dying in a chuck accident are exactly the same.


Just as my walking down a sidewalk getting hit by a drunk driver and somebody who climbs everest both deserve what we get if we die.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by jhunt223

Idiot was harsh and uncalled for. But, if you find that stuff entertaining I think you just might have a little hillbilly deep down inside you somewhere.

And you suffer from delusions of superiority.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

But the difference is one is human-nature, the other is strictly for entertainment purposes. Besides allot of these horses die of a ruptured heart, they can't handle these events. Clearly the drivers are pushing them beyond resonable (humane) limits.... for money and show.

You're attacking at the wrong point then. The issue there is not the Stampede or chuckwagon racing, but the very nature of how thoroughbread horses are bred. I'll not dispute there is an issue there, but it goes back to an earlier question: Why aren't you attacking the racing industry as a whole? Going after the chucks alone is rather silly on this point.

Also, we see the same in human beings. Mickey Reneaud being one. I find arguments like this to be a rather silly example of human self loathing, because I doubt you have ever batted an eye when a human dies because of similar causes. And before you retort with the "we can choose, they can't", I'll simply remind you that these animals are bred to race. And I've been around enough race horses to know that they aren't doing so against their will.

[Aegypticus]

Originally Posted by jhunt223

Idiot was harsh and uncalled for. But, if you find that stuff entertaining I think you just might have a little hillbilly deep down inside you somewhere.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I consider you to have already lost any argument on this topic by resorting to attacks.

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You're attacking at the wrong point then. The issue there is not the Stampede or chuckwagon racing, but the very nature of how thoroughbread horses are bred. I'll not dispute there is an issue there, but it goes back to an earlier question: Why aren't you attacking the racing industry as a whole? Going after the chucks alone is rather silly on this point.

Also, we see the same in human beings. Mickey Reneaud being one. I find arguments like this to be a rather silly example of human self loathing, because I doubt you have ever batted an eye when a human dies because of similar causes. And before you retort with the "we can choose, they can't", I'll simply remind you that these animals are bred to race. And I've been around enough race horses to know that they aren't doing so against their will.

Bred to race? ...sure.
Bred to be tied to other horses and a wagon, all while being pushed beyond their limits (hence the heart attacks) in an loud enviroment (music/announcers/thousands of people)? .... I doubt it.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You're attacking at the wrong point then. The issue there is not the Stampede or chuckwagon racing, but the very nature of how thoroughbread horses are bred. I'll not dispute there is an issue there, but it goes back to an earlier question: Why aren't you attacking the racing industry as a whole? Going after the chucks alone is rather silly on this point.

Also, we see the same in human beings. Mickey Reneaud being one. I find arguments like this to be a rather silly example of human self loathing, because I doubt you have ever batted an eye when a human dies because of similar causes. And before you retort with the "we can choose, they can't", I'll simply remind you that these animals are bred to race. And I've been around enough race horses to know that they aren't doing so against their will.

Perhaps I'm wrong but do traditional race horses have as high of a fatality rate as rodeo/chuck horses?


To go back to my earlier posts, I don't really care one way or another about rodeo. But I do find it rather silly to use arguments like "well the riders love these horses like family". Really? I don't normally force* my loved ones into life or death situations for my own financial well being and entertainment. (although in all honesty I might if I could...joking?)

I'd much prefer an answer of "dude, they are ####ing animals. Humans have dominion over animals and have for thousands of years. We slaughter pigs/cows/chickens for their meat, why not race a few horses for our enjoyment?"

To me, that response at least isn't filled with disengenuous crap. Convince me that we're just taking advantage of lesser beings and that it is ok. Don't try and convince me that these animals are loved like humans and some notion that they are actually doing the horses a favor and saving them from worse off lives.

*I'm aware that we've already covered the fact that they are bred to race but it doesn't have to be life threatening.

[Resolute 14]

Cecil, people like you calling them "death races", "life and death situations" and the like is just as disingenuous. So if you want to go down that road, you are simply making yourself out as a hypocrite.

Now, questioning the safety of chucks vs. thoroughbread racing is a valid question. Let me try to speak to that.

Hard stats do exist for the latter races. The Jockey Club of America tracks this, and for the three-year period between 2009 and 2011, the average was 1.91 fatalities per 1000 starts.

Chuckwagon racing is harder to get stats for. I don't know off-hand what the stats are for the Ponoka Stampede and others are. So lets just focus on the VHS's argument of "50 horses killed since 1986" at Calgary. First off, I will mention that the VHS starts at 1986 for a specific reason - that year had a couple spectacular incidents that saw a total of nine horses die. The Stampede completely overhauled the chucks and made numerous changes after that, which has led to fewer injuries and deaths. But it is convenient for the VHS to start there.

Anyway, assuming 50 deaths in the 26 years between 1986 and 2011 gives us 21.4 deaths per 1000 races. Excluding 1986, given all the rule changes that followed, brings it down to 18.2. Obviously much higher, though I never would have disputed it is a more dangeorus sport. But, since there has traditionally been three times as many horses on the track at a chuckwagon race than a normal race, it only stands to reason that higher relative numbers of horses will die. Just as more people will die on Deerfoot Trail than on Metis Trail in crashes. Unfortuantely, it will be a few years until we have statistically significant data to see if the reduction of eight outriders per heat will have a noticeable difference.

[getbak]

The horse that collapsed on the track had a brain aneurysm. The two that were euthanized, unfortunately, suffered injuries sustained in the ensuing pileup.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...921/story.html

[Senator Clay Davis]

I think its inevitable that at some point the Chucks and Calf Roping will go the way of the dinosaur. I think at some point there will be a catastrophic accident (10+ horses dying) and that will ratchet up the pressure to 10. And as demographics change, eventually those who think this is cruel will very much outnumber those who think it's fine.

I also think its strange to suggest animal rights activists revel in this and are happy the animals died because it allows them to spew their viewpoint. I'm guessing all the anti-war activists weren't cheering that Iraq happened and was a disaster cause it furthered their point.