Stampede 2012

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by troutman

Having been around barns, I don't think I've ever seen a horse that preferred saddling up to grazing in the field. Do they like to run? I think so - sometimes they run playfully on their own. On a ride, horses move a lot faster on the way back, then on the way out, because they can't wait to get the saddle and rider off.

I don't know think we could ever know for sure what a horse is thinking.

So you think that you could be considered abusing your horses by riding them?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

So you think that you could be considered abusing your horses by riding them?

I wouldn't call it abuse, but I think it is safe to assume the horse would rather be doing something else.

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Individual - The glue factory operator
Unnatural - Bullet to the Brain
Intentional- We all know where dog food comes from.

You don't have any leg to stand on.

Humane death > Inhumane death.


I actually have two legs to stand on.

[killer_carlson]

These animal rights pile ons really get me steamed. Allegations of animal abuse are absolutely absurd. Because their complaints keep (rightfully) being ignored by the hundreds of thousands and millions of people who attend each year, they start to become more alarmist in their language in the desperate hope of getting more attention.

There was an accident. Everyone is upset that these magnificent animals were hurt. Instead of piling on and antagonizing, try something more useful with your time.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

Humane death > Inhumane death.


I actually have two legs to stand on.

being euthanized immediately after a serious injury is an inhumane death?

When they fall in the pasture due to a hole, or age, or a cougar gets them, is that more humane than being euthanized?

You have no legs to stand on, aside from being an irritating know-it-all. Even if that is your intention, you're still failing at it.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

Humane death > Inhumane death.


I actually have two legs to stand on.

Actually, they are chemically euthanized by veteranarians on the track; in a factory they are likely first jolted by an electric charge before being shot. And that's ignoring the utility of an extra 10-15 years of life.

Which is more humane?

[MissTeeks]

Holy hell what a show last night! My throat is so sore! You can tell Garth hasn't been touring in forever, he was so out of shape. I thought he was going to have a heart attack after Ain't Going Down Til The Sun Comes Up! And Trisha was great too. It was totally worth the extra money I had to pay to see him.

[corporatejay]

When are people going to ban pools? Kids dying needlessly for the entertainment. OUTRAGe!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4414496/

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

When are people going to ban pools? Kids dying needlessly for the entertainment. OUTRAGe!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4414496/

That is the worst analogy in history.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by troutman

I wouldn't call it abuse, but I think it is safe to assume the horse would rather be doing something else.

Well, I agree ranking a horse's preferential activities along a scale would be rather difficult.

But the assumption that racing thoroughbreds is akin to abuse is still rather ridiculous. These horses are chosen from hundreds to race because when put in that situation they choose to or at least are able to run the fastest. We know physiologically they are quite similar, yet some horses run faster than others. Clearly the simplest explanation is that some horses LIKE to run fast or race.... is it not?

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

There was an accident. Everyone is upset that these magnificent animals were hurt. Instead of piling on and antagonizing, try something more useful with your time.

Actually there's been 'many' incidents:
2012: 3 Dead
2009: 4 Dead
2007: 3 Dead
...and I am sure there are more.

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

being euthanized immediately after a serious injury is an inhumane death?

Yes it is inhumane. A horse that suffers a heartattack during a race for simple entertainment is inhumane.

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

When they fall in the pasture due to a hole, or age, or a cougar gets them, is that more humane than being euthanized?.

This is human nature, not forced hill billy entertainment. Know the difference.

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

You have no legs to stand on, aside from being an irritating know-it-all. Even if that is your intention, you're still failing at it.

I don't know it all, but I do know that pre-historic events like this really have no place anymore. Society will continue to move forward.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Well, I agree ranking a horse's preferential activities along a scale would be rather difficult.

But the assumption that racing thoroughbreds is akin to abuse is still rather ridiculous. These horses are chosen from hundreds to race because when put in that situation they choose to or at least are able to run the fastest. We know physiologically they are quite similar, yet some horses run faster than others. Clearly the simplest explanation is that some horses LIKE to run fast or race.... is it not?

But there is a problem with the argument that it isn't abuse because these animals are treated like family or are treated great.

Yeah right up until the point where they die a terrible death from being forced to participate in a dangerous sport.

Just because they like to race doesn't mean the racing conditions need to be life threatening.

[killer_carlson]

Although it wasn['t my intention, I did get some last minute seats for the Grandstand Show and chucks. Great seats. We went to the grounds and had a blast. My 4 year old wanted to try a few games and I'll be damned if a dart she recklessly threw towards the carnie didn't stick in the star and she won a penguin toy. After that all she wanted to do was play games. She might want to be a carnie when she grows up.


She loved the chucks - horses are her thing. We had her dressed up pretty good in a cowboy shirt and belt I wore when I was 3, some great boots that my mom found for her, and her hat. She kept getting stopped by people who told her how good she looked, which for any girl - even at 4 years old - really makes them feel great.


THe grandstand show though - wow. It's been a few years since I have been to the show and this year was awesome. I actually quite enjoyed it. My daughter though, it blew her mind. People up in the air, the people on the bikes, the fact that there were kids doing the singing and dancing AND it was in Canada = too much to take. her jaw was on the floor the whole time. She instructed me that each time we (meaning she) saw something amazing we were to clap. If she wasn't clapping the entire time, she was dancing in or on her seat. The flames as part of the fireworks scared her, but in an exciting way as I saw her peeking through her hands. She sang along (really loud) to the music even though she didn't know the words. She loved seeing all the cowboys and cowgirls (meaning basically anyone in a hat and a dress or jeans). It really was a fantastic experience for her. She passed out on the train on the way home. I know I've had a few good stampede days that ended up with me passing out on the train, it might be in the genes. We won another prize on the way home that she is claiming that she won (because it's a huge one) - she slept with it last night.


I had a lot of really good times at the stampede. As a kid it's about the rides and maybe your dad or stepdad can win you a prize. Perhaps a treat or two as well. As a teenager it's about impressing the girls. In university it was about nashville north and trying to keep your eyes on your date instead of the other girls strutting around.


As a parent now though, I can still say that the event was fantastic and was probably the best Daddy-Daughter day I've had since becoming a father. The diversity of the spectacle was great. The integration of the western motif with the opportunity to have the animals so close. The way the city embraces it. The crowds and quality of the show. This will be something that my daughter never forgets.


One final comment - having lived in Edmonton for a while now it seems that the same three companies - PCL, Stantec and Rexall - are the sponsors at every single event. What really impressed me was the enormous corporate participation at the stampede. From the different sponsors at the different events, to seeing businesses embrace it, I can tell you that even fairly affluent cities (like Edmonton) don't see anywhere near this level of participation from a corporate level. This integration into the civic identity and environment is what defines a city, and Calgary should be proud of it. I was damned proud last night to have grown up here.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Well, I agree ranking a horse's preferential activities along a scale would be rather difficult.

But the assumption that racing thoroughbreds is akin to abuse is still rather ridiculous. These horses are chosen from hundreds to race because when put in that situation they choose to or at least are able to run the fastest. We know physiologically they are quite similar, yet some horses run faster than others. Clearly the simplest explanation is that some horses LIKE to run fast or race.... is it not?

Horses were domesticated in the ancient past to work for humans. It is a master/servant relationship, and the humans have all the power. The horses work for us, and in return receive feed, water, vet care and security from predators. I think it is okay that horses be expected to work, even if they may not totally enjoy it.

If some horses run faster than others, that has to do with breeding (natural and artificial selection). I don't think there is much "choice" in it for the animal.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

But there is a problem with the argument that it isn't abuse because these animals are treated like family or are treated great.

Yeah right up until the point where they die a terrible death from being forced to participate in a dangerous sport.

Just because they like to race doesn't mean the racing conditions need to be life threatening.

Sure, some of what you say is true, but you can't ignore reality. If these horses weren't racing they would have all been killed, in a rather equally terrible way, many years ago.

So, on a purely philosophical level your argument can make sense. But on a utilitarian basis there really is no comparison between the glue factory and racing.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

Actually there's been 'many' incidents:
2012: 3 Dead
2009: 4 Dead
2007: 3 Dead
...and I am sure there are more.



Yes it is inhumane. A horse that suffers a heartattack during a race for simple entertainment is inhumane.



This is human nature, not forced hill billy entertainment. Know the difference.


I don't know it all, but I do know that pre-historic events like this really have no place anymore. Society will continue to move forward.

Thank you for proving my earlier point that because you are so out of touch, you keep tryiing more alarmist language to prove your point.

Pre-historic? 100 years dude. 100 years.

Hill Billy? Ranching formed this province, not hippies. Just because something is a tradition, doesn't mean it's backwoods and hill billy.

Get over yourself and take the rest of the hippies with you.

[J pold]

Yeah yeah, Garth Brooks was amazing, I got it. What I really want to know is, how was Carly Rae Jepsen!?

Tell me maybe.

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Thank you for proving my earlier point that because you are so out of touch, you keep tryiing more alarmist language to prove your point.

Pre-historic? 100 years dude. 100 years.

Hill Billy? Ranching formed this province, not hippies. Just because something is a tradition, doesn't mean it's backwoods and hill billy.

Get over yourself and take the rest of the hippies with you.

Umm... ok? So... if you have no rebuttal about the actual topic attempt to divert the conversation?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by J pold

Yeah yeah, Garth Brooks was amazing, I got it. What I really want to know is, how was Carly Rae Jepsen!?

Tell me maybe.

Ah-may-zing.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by troutman

Horses were domesticated in the ancient past to work for humans. It is a master/servant relationship, and the humans have all the power. The horses work for us, and in return receive feed, water, vet care and security from predators. I think it is okay that horses be expected to work, even if they may not totally enjoy it.

If some horses run faster than others, that has to do with breeding (natural and artificial selection). I don't think there is much "choice" in it for the animal.

While all of that may be true, I still disagree that a throroghbred horse isn't happier racing than it would be doing other kinds of 'work'.

I think it is clear that artifically selecting horses that 'enjoy' racing would result in faster horses. Trying to imagine a miserable horse racing so fast it could kill itself is just strange. Some horses don't want to race, and I would imagine it's because they don't 'enjoy' it.

I'm sure if you asked all the drivers down at the chucks if they felt their horses enjoyed racing their answer would be unanimous .