Would you abuse a baby to entertain a crowd?-Vancouver Humane Society

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I don't think people have any problem at all with the hypocrisy of separating the televised death of a calf in a rodeo roping event from where they get their steaks.

It would be a mistake to rely on that kind of hopeful contradiction to keep rodeo alive. Cloverdale, Canada's fifth largest rodeo, banned calf-roping after a calf died in 2007.

The general joke in the Ag Society community is that if you want to lose money, hold a rodeo. That's because, generally, the group of people who are interested in attending a pure, stand-alone rodeo is pretty limited and diminishing. You see that at small town rodeos all the time. You would think those kinds of events would be the "heartland,' but they're the ones that actually struggle the most.

Where rodeo can survive and even thrive is to surround itself with a festival or other types of activities where its one aspect of the attraction, perhaps the theme, but making itself more attractive as an event to the general community. That in turn also makes it eminently more sponsorable for corporate dollars.

In general, around North America, the rodeos that have recognized they need to adapt and fit into the new social mores of their communities are the ones that are surviving and even increasing attendance.

If it was only the Calgary Stampede, as a pure rodeo, they'd probably draw flies. As "The Greatest Outdoor Show On Earth," with the rodeo activities included with a package of activities for 10 days, its hanging in there.

By fitting themselves into a larger, more popular event they also build themselves some immunity and goodwill within the community. Like a cockroach, they get harder to kill.

Still, if its possible for bullfighting to be banned in Catalonia Spain, then its possible for rodeo to eventually be banned in increasingly urbanized North America.

Finding creative ways to enhance cash flow and navigating through changing social mores are the primary challenges facing rodeo.

Cowperson

Can't really argue or comment on most of that. And I definitely agree with the last part. But I wonder a bit about the first sentence.

How often does that happen? And is it any more common than other accidents or problems that are faced on farms and slaughterhouses?

Lastly, I do think there is a general hypocrisy with a lot of people who eat meat. Ever see how baby chicks get processed? It's brutal. But people don't think of it when the order a chicken burger. However, when people watch a rodeo they DO think about it because, well it's visible.

There is probably a short to medium list of things we could do to make our meat processing more humane before we start turning a lens to rodeo.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Still, if its possible for bullfighting to be banned in Catalonia Spain, then its possible for rodeo to eventually be banned in increasingly urbanized North America.

I don't think comparing bullfighting, where the goal is to kill the animal; to rodeo is a fair comparison.

That's like saying; ' since bull-baiting was banned, it's possible for all dog agility trials to be banned '

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Can't really argue or comment on most of that. And I definitely agree with the last part. But I wonder a bit about the first sentence.

How often does that happen? And is it any more common than other accidents or problems that are faced on farms and slaughterhouses?

Lastly, I do think there is a general hypocrisy with a lot of people who eat meat. Ever see how baby chicks get processed? It's brutal. But people don't think of it when the order a chicken burger. However, when people watch a rodeo they DO think about it because, well it's visible.

There is probably a short to medium list of things we could do to make our meat processing more humane before we start turning a lens to rodeo.

I promise you, the problem of the cow dying at the slaughter house is far more common than any other possible issue a cow could ever face.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Can't really argue or comment on most of that. And I definitely agree with the last part. But I wonder a bit about the first sentence.

How often does that happen? And is it any more common than other accidents or problems that are faced on farms and slaughterhouses?

Lastly, I do think there is a general hypocrisy with a lot of people who eat meat. Ever see how baby chicks get processed? It's brutal. But people don't think of it when the order a chicken burger. However, when people watch a rodeo they DO think about it because, well it's visible.

There is probably a short to medium list of things we could do to make our meat processing more humane before we start turning a lens to rodeo.

good point(s). Two "cool story bro"

• For some reason in grade 8 we went to a slaughter house for chickens. I have no recollection of why we did this, but the sights/sounds/smells have always stuck with me.
• Spend sometime on the slaughter floor at a big plant in Alberta, ie: Cargill......WOW is all I can say.

I am a meat eater, but I try to know where and how my meat is handled/raised/slaughtered.

Rodeo, will it die off, time will tell. It may develop into a display of skills which are no longer used on things other than animals. I am sure other cultures have developed in this way, but none jump to mind.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by First Lady

I don't think comparing bullfighting, where the goal is to kill the animal; to rodeo is a fair comparison.

That's like saying; ' since bull-baiting was banned, it's possible for all dog agility trials to be banned '

I think it was more a "if this activity, which is deeply ingrained in the society make up can be banned" line of thinking.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

good point(s). Two "cool story bro"

• For some reason in grade 8 we went to a slaughter house for chickens. I have no recollection of why we did this, but the sights/sounds/smells have always stuck with me.
• Spend sometime on the slaughter floor at a big plant in Alberta, ie: Cargill......WOW is all I can say.

I am a meat eater, but I try to know where and how my meat is handled/raised/slaughtered.

Rodeo, will it die off, time will tell. It may develop into a display of skills which are no longer used on things other than animals. I am sure other cultures have developed in this way, but none jump to mind.

Just curious, having worked in the plant for many years, I wonder what you mean by this.

[Locke]

So, wait a second, just to be sure I understand this:

People are of the opinion that Rodeo, and calf roping in particular, will die off or be de-popularized due to the 'evolving social mores?'

Is that about right? Calf roping was banned somewhere because a calf died?

I think with reality TV, Survivor and Jersey Shore that society's 'social mores' are trending more toward increasing public and televised torture for entertainment if anything.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

good point(s). Two "cool story bro"

• For some reason in grade 8 we went to a slaughter house for chickens. I have no recollection of why we did this, but the sights/sounds/smells have always stuck with me.
• Spend sometime on the slaughter floor at a big plant in Alberta, ie: Cargill......WOW is all I can say.

I am a meat eater, but I try to know where and how my meat is handled/raised/slaughtered.

Rodeo, will it die off, time will tell. It may develop into a display of skills which are no longer used on things other than animals. I am sure other cultures have developed in this way, but none jump to mind.

You are probably right on that one. I think someone mentioned robotic animals above, haha. Probably not exactly that, but the same sort of idea.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Just curious, having worked in the plant for many years, I wonder what you mean by this.

When I went it was 15 years ago, things may have changed. I found it to be what I believe the majority of people would call violent and unsavoury.

Thats all.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Locke

So, wait a second, just to be sure I understand this:

People are of the opinion that Rodeo, and calf roping in particular, will die off or be de-popularized due to the 'evolving social mores?'

Is that about right? Calf roping was banned somewhere because a calf died?

I think with reality TV, Survivor and Jersey Shore that society's 'social mores' are trending more toward increasing public and televised torture for entertainment if anything.

I think people are open to having humans being tortured on reality TV cause they sign up for it. They 'deserve' it. (and they kinda do, hah!)

Animals, children, and people caught in wars don't really count. Or at least, people PRETEND to be concerned about those things.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I think people are open to having humans being tortured on reality TV cause they sign up for it. They 'deserve' it. (and they kinda do, hah!)

I happened to watch the last 10 mins of Bachelorette before the news last night.....that was torture.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

When I went it was 15 years ago, things may have changed. I found it to be what I believe the majority of people would call violent and unsavoury.

Thats all.

You mean, stuff like, dead cows?

Blood on things? Hide being removed? Cows being dismembered and organs being removed? Carcasses hanging on hooks?

Honestly, I would like to know which portions of the process that you observed were 'violent and unsavory'

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Rathji

You mean, stuff like, dead cows?

Blood on things? Hide being removed? Cows being dismembered and organs being removed? Carcasses hanging on hooks?

Honestly, I would like to know which portions of the process that you observed were 'violent and unsavory'

As mentioned elsewhere, a lot of society has a very sanitized idea of where the meat comes from and how it is "created". A majority of society would find that off putting. Haven't you ever stood next to people at the meat counter and listen to the things they say when they see trotters or pigs ears. It may not be an issue for you, but I would suggest the majority of society is different in their views.

It didn't both me, I have seen much worse in my life, much worse.

[Rathji]

I will just assume your word choice of 'violent and unsavoury' was just a poor one.

I will replace it with 'disgusting and bloody' and then agree with you, since you are talking about an animal that is being killed and dismembered, that kind of thing is pretty much unavoidable.

[Resolute 14]

You should see where mushrooms come from!

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I will just assume your word choice of 'violent and unsavoury' was just a poor one.

I will replace it with 'disgusting and bloody' and then agree with you, since you are talking about an animal that is being killed and dismembered, that kind of thing is pretty much unavoidable.

I can accept you don't like my choice of words.

However, unsavoury is something that is not to look at, so I reckon that works. Violence is subject, but hell so is all language for that matter....

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by First Lady

I don't think comparing bullfighting, where the goal is to kill the animal; to rodeo is a fair comparison.

That's like saying; ' since bull-baiting was banned, it's possible for all dog agility trials to be banned '

Comparing bullfighting and rodeo is a cultural comparison, the level its ingrained in the public conscience. Its hard to generate support to ban bullfighting in Spain, maybe harder than it would be to generate support for banning rodeo in North America.

Its a bit disingenuous to say that calf-roping is a skill still practiced because its necessary to provide proper veterinary care. That's not the whole story. I highly doubt veterinarians twist calf tails to make them run faster around the corral!!

The difficulty for rodeo or chuckwagons is television/video. A dead horse in a chuckwagon event is on the six o'clock news and looks like death by gratuitous entertainment. A dead cow coming out of a slaughterhouse simply tastes good.

Below, a photo I shot a few years ago in High River, a horse on the team on the inside rail is dropping dead of a heart attack near the finish line.



Still rodeo has a cultural hold . . . . this was a feature on a bucking horse sale in Montana on CBS Sunday Morning a few days ago:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...flexGridModule

Cowperson

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Comparing bullfighting and rodeo is a cultural comparison,

Okay, I can agree they are each ingrained in their respective cultures.

If the goal of any rodeo event was the death of the animal.... well, that event just wouldn't exist... in our culture.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Locke

So, wait a second, just to be sure I understand this:

People are of the opinion that Rodeo, and calf roping in particular, will die off or be de-popularized due to the 'evolving social mores?'

Is that about right? Calf roping was banned somewhere because a calf died?

I think with reality TV, Survivor and Jersey Shore that society's 'social mores' are trending more toward increasing public and televised torture for entertainment if anything.

This. I actually think fights to the death will be on pay per view (maybe only over the internet) within the next 15-20 years. Humans have done it before (gladiators, etc) and I think that's the way society is going.

Probably prisoners in an undeveloped country fighting for their freedom. (kind of like "Death Race" but without the cars)

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Oh Vancouver.....

You deal with your drug problems by bringing them into a "safe" environment.



So butt out while Alberta relives her traditional ranch heritage in a controlled environment.

I have to ask what the relevance of this is to the rodeo? And what the Vancouver Humane Society has to do with safe injection sites?