Taliban at it again

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Rerun

According to my brother-in-law, the whole country isn't that far removed from the stone age.... needless to say thats probably a significant reason they treat the woment the way they do.

Religion is typically more prevalant in 3rd world countries or anywhere where quality of living is poor. It provides a purpose and meaning to for their dour existences. Without it it would be nearly impossible to control the masses in such countries. Religion is on its simplest terms an old man made solution for population control that is fading in Westernized countries where people are more educated and live a lifestyle where what you can attain is only limited by your own efforts. We have it good. We don't need religion to remind us why we are here. We can make our own decisions and live our lives the way we want to. Not goverened by a bible or other outdated, fictitious writings and symbols.

If man ever gets to the next stage of evolution it will only be after the abolishment of religion.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

I wonder what the billions of peaceful religious people would think of us painting all religion as the root of evil. I am not religious myself anymore, but I bristle at the suggestion that if there was no religion then the entire human race would be all utopian/enlightened etc.

I guarantee even if you somehow magically converted those Taliban murderers to Athiests, they would still cook up a justification to commit atrocities.

No one has claimed this. What a ridiculous thing to say.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

I wonder what the billions of peaceful religious people would think of us painting all religion as the root of evil. I am not religious myself anymore, but I bristle at the suggestion that if there was no religion then the entire human race would be all utopian/enlightened etc.

But if people are killing and committing violence in the name of God (or whatever they think Allah is telling them to do, for example), does not the minimalization in religious belief result in less chaos and disorder?

What about the billions of peaceful people who get along just fine without religion?

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

I guarantee even if you somehow magically converted those Taliban murderers to Athiests, they would still cook up a justification to commit atrocities.

Now isn't that reaching for sweeping generalizations. People that are heavily influenced by religious beliefs will still commit atrocities, even if their religious beliefs dictating a great amount of the way they conduct themselves is completely gone? Does that mean suicide bombers trying to achieve martyrdom will still suicide bomb for martyrdom, even when they don't follow that belief system anymore?

[afc wimbledon]

All human beings are, in and of themselves, ignorant superstitouis, barbaric, xenophobic nasty little creatures that grew, reletively recently out of a cannibal ape creature.

Because of this the religeons we came up with have been, and remain, a good excuse to give full vent to our nasty brutish nature, this means the religeon is a tool, an excuse if you will, for violence, not the reason.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

No one has claimed this. What a ridiculous thing to say.

Sorry to Muta that I have to quote this since he at least seems to be trying to have a reasonable discussion instead of calling viewpoints outright ridiculous, but:

Originally Posted by Muta

Religion holds back the true potential of human development and social evolution.

to me that kinda sounds like he's saying once religion ceases to exist, humanity can finally move on to the next level of enlightment.

anyways just a couple pages in and I'm regretting wading into this topic. none of us will live long enough to see a world without religion, so at the very least I'd like people to understand that the connection between religion and evil/violence isn't as black and white as it looks on the surface.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

All human beings are, in and of themselves, ignorant superstitouis, barbaric, xenophobic nasty little creatures that grew, reletively recently out of a cannibal ape creature.

Because of this the religeons we came up with have been, and remain, a good excuse to give full vent to our nasty brutish nature, this means the religeon is a tool, an excuse if you will, for violence, not the reason.

I agree with this. Blaming violence in the world on religion is like blaming the world's financial crisis on capitalism. You have to delve into our humanistic nature to find the real source of the problems.

Most conflicts that exist and ever existed can be summed up as being a competition for resources (often aggravated by things such as poverty, famine, disease, disasters, etc...). Religion is just one of the ways humans attempt to divide themselves to justify either taking or depriving another group of people from the resources they claim. If you don't adhere to the rules, you are considered an outsider and not worthy of being part of the society. Of course, most of the people don't realize what the nature is behind their actions. The feel that they are doing god's will and don't understand why their society and culture has evolved the way it has.

Religion isn't the only tool for this either. Race, social status, language, and geography are all tools used for the same purposes. The more strife in an area dictates how fragmented societies become.

Even if you managed to eradicate all religion, you'll never get rid of the tribalism that is ingrained in our brains through millions of years of evolution. If you really want to fight against religious oppression, then fight against poverty, war, disease. etc...).

[Inglewood Jack]

^ pretty much exactly what I wanted to say but my religion-addled monkey brain wouldn't allow me to express properly

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

to me that kinda sounds like he's saying once religion ceases to exist, humanity can finally move on to the next level of enlightment.

Well, yes, I actually do believe this. Aside from teaching followers about compassion and decency for humanity, I'm not sure what other purpose religion serves in today's science-based world. There is too much scientific evidence to suggest some sort of higher entity exists that magically maintains humanity and the world. It's a nice idea, but just not practical anymore.

I'm of the belief that once humans focus 100% on their surroundings and realize that scientific reason is the way to true social, technological and human advancement, we can truly achieve a world peace and a collective understanding.

However, if people are comfortable with religion and it gives them faith and reason for living, then more power to them I guess. I will never ever try to push my own beliefs on anybody. I just don't like the violence, feuding and misunderstanding that arises from religion - from which I derive as an unfortunate and completely unnecessary reality.

[Barnission]

Originally Posted by Muta

What about the billions of peaceful people who get along just fine without religion?

Billions of them? There aren't even a billion agnostics/atheists/etc if I recall. People live peacefully with or without religion. Religion is not the problem.

Now isn't that reaching for sweeping generalizations. People that are heavily influenced by religious beliefs will still commit atrocities, even if their religious beliefs dictating a great amount of the way they conduct themselves is completely gone? Does that mean suicide bombers trying to achieve martyrdom will still suicide bomb for martyrdom, even when they don't follow that belief system anymore?[

Actually, yes, you're just missing the point. Simply, religious extremism is a tool. People would be controlling and the manipulating people without religion.

I'm of the belief that once humans focus 100% on their surroundings and realize that scientific reason is the way to true social, technological and human advancement, we can truly achieve a world peace and a collective understanding.

The thing is, people won't just stop following a religion and then become the way you want them to do be like. Most people don't even follow their religions properly, or even seriously. It's just become a normality in society, and for others it's a community thing. People will "focus 100% on their surroundings and realize that scientific reason is the way to true social, technological and human advancement" and then drop their religions, not the other way around.

I just don't understand this fantasy belief that we'll one day be at the glory land once religion is gone, yet then criticize people for believing in a similar thing, only in a religious context. Society will advance through technological advances, and continue it's small, incremental evolutionary steps. Getting rid of religion won't speed up mother nature.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

Sorry to Muta that I have to quote this since he at least seems to be trying to have a reasonable discussion instead of calling viewpoints outright ridiculous...

My apologies for calling a spade a spade when you opt to argue a point that no one has proposed.

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

to me that kinda sounds like he's saying once religion ceases to exist, humanity can finally move on to the next level of enlightment.

His quote doesn't equal what you just said.

Religion DOES hold back our development, on a moral, social, and technological level. Once everyone stops answering questions with "We don't know, therefore [deity]", we can be honest with ourselves when it comes to matters of our universe, and what is truly moral.

[drhu22]

Originally Posted by Muta

Religion holds back the true potential of human development and social evolution. More people have been killed in the name of God than for probably any other reason. Ironically, until this changes, I don't see how long-term peace could ever be attained. IMO, if one wants to look for answers to our existence, one needs to look no further than to the soil beneath our feet and realize that we all come from the same place regardless of who you are. Mother Nature creates us all equal. To the Taliban - Man wouldn't exist without Woman.

Re: Religion holds back the true potential of human development and social evolution.
How about murder, greed, lust for its own sake, theft, envy, etc...notice any sins there?
So mother nature is your god? You could just as well say the Creator created us all. Hmmm...its not too far of a leap to say God created us all is it? The thing I think is that i didnt put myself here or create all this...which means something far greater than me did. Nature, Creator, God...just semantics.

Re: More people have been killed in the name of God than for probably any other reason.
Thats the fault of stupid people who misinterpret religion or use it for their own selfish (often political) purposes...nothing else.

And no im not commenting on the subject of the thread (sorry), im just sick of people who put down other peoples religious beliefs because of a crowd mentality (sheeplike) and think they are hip by doing so, but dont think it through or really care.

[drhu22]

woops posted second reply rather than editing...

[Red Ice Player]

Can't we all just agree that the Taliban are scum?

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by drhu22

Re: More people have been killed in the name of God than for probably any other reason.
Thats the fault of stupid people who misinterpret religion nothing else.

Misinterpret? Uh huh. No, actually, it's through literal interpretation that these things come about. It is through non-religious means that we have discovered "Hey, maybe eating shellfish isn't an abomination" and "Let's stop stoning women who show insufficient evidence for virginity on their wedding night, it's a real buzz-kill".

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

Can't we all just agree that the Taliban are scum?

You'll hear no argument from me there.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

I don't need to prove you wrong. When the thread started I mused "how soon before the guy with the Conroy avatar makes his usual blanket attack on all people who practice religion?" Is it turned out, it was the sixth post.
If my comments are a personal attack its not because you hate all religions, but its because you personalize your insult to include all people who practice their faith. And now you're offended by a little pushback?
To "prove you wrong", how about I introduce you to a few members of my immediate and extended family, some of my coworkers, some of my friends, all people of various faiths who attend church, mosques, synagouges, temples etc and who can variously be described as kind, charitable, tolerant, flawed (like everybody else), and all capable of living harmoniously within a secular society. But to you they're all freaks and the same as the Taliban, as you stated in your post.

You think your the only one with friends/family/coworkers with "faith"? HAHAHAHAHA, I have you know my GF goes to church at least twice a month,I have many friends that I like to call(in my head) "dumb as paint" for believing such ######ed rubbish but I would never try to change their minds unless they ask a confrontation,and my freinds know me well enough not to bother.

Lets gets something straight there bud, this is the internet,it's not personal and if you don't like what I have to say there is an ignore button made for you for posters like me. When I see people murdered/abused/raped in the name of an imaginary god I will speak my mind and I don't give a sh&t what you think.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by T@T

You think your the only one with friends/family/coworkers with "faith"? HAHAHAHAHA, I have you know my GF goes to church at least twice a month,I have many friends that I like to call(in my head) "dumb as paint" for believing such ######ed rubbish but I would never try to change their minds unless they ask a confrontation,and my freinds know me well enough not to bother.

Lets gets something straight there bud, this is the internet,it's not personal and if you don't like what I have to say there is an ignore button made for you for posters like me. When I see people murdered/abused/raped in the name of an imaginary god I will speak my mind and I don't give a sh&t what you think.

Then why do you get so upset when they "personally attack" you?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Then why do you get so upset when they "personally attack" you?

I'm not upset at all, I just think if you can attack me then you should be able to debate me...sadly bible thumpers don't seem to have the brains or the gumption to even try.

[drhu22]

Re: When I see people murdered/abused/raped in the name of an imaginary god I will speak my mind and I don't give a sh&t what you think.

People of faith have no monopoly on rape, murder, or abuse.
Really...

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by T@T

I'm not upset at all, I just think if you can attack me then you should be able to debate me...sadly bible thumpers don't seem to have the brains or the gumption to even try.

So by calling you out for being insulting to total strangers (all people who are religous), I'm a bible thumper? Actually I'm agnostic, and have no reason to debate religion with you. I will say this though, bud, you come across as obnoxious on this topic, because you are.

[drhu22]

Originally Posted by T@T

I'm not upset at all, I just think if you can attack me then you should be able to debate me...sadly bible thumpers don't seem to have the brains or the gumption to even try.

You've got a head full of preconceptions and biases.
Therefore, you are not worth debating.
Furthermore, debate is beside the point. It's about how you conduct your own life.