2012 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread - Page 35 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Sylvanfan · 07-08-2012, 10:29 PM

Looks like teams are starting to pitch EE with a fair bit of care. His OBP is up to 382 now. It's a great opportunity for a guy like Lind to get some fastballs with guys on base.

dustyanddaflames · 07-09-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flames_1987

Jays have depth at CF in the organization though and it really comes down to how much they value that first half by Rasmus. Personally, I feel like Colby is going to continue to be one of the best Center Fielders in the game for quite some time. It still remains to be seen if Gose is even going to be good enough to hit Major League pitching and his value is never going to be higher.

Why not just slide Rasmus over to LF and have Gose patrol CF? It isn't like this club has people banging down the door to man LF. For the record, I do agree with you on Rasmus - seems to have found his groove in Toronto.

Otsy · 07-09-2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

Why not just slide Rasmus over to LF and have Gose patrol CF? It isn't like this club has people banging down the door to man LF. For the record, I do agree with you on Rasmus - seems to have found his groove in Toronto.

Don't mess with success. When Rasmus has found his groove and playing exceptional, why would you make him play a different position. I say keep him right where he is and make Gose or Marisnick play left when they come up.

dustyanddaflames · 07-09-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otsy

Don't mess with success. When Rasmus has found his groove and playing exceptional, why would you make him play a different position. I say keep him right where he is and make Gose or Marisnick play left when they come up.

While I agree with you on the success part, if Gose is the better defensive CF - why would you slide him over to LF? Not that I have a beef with Rasmus and his defense, just curious why you'd make the better of the two (if it pans out that way), change his position? It isn't like you'd be making Rasmus learn 3B, like Lind did (OF to 1B), as they are completely different positions. I don't think a shift from CF to LF is a major change, and something that could be ironed out over spring training. Is it a different read - sure. But everything else stays the same,

The Big Chill · 07-09-2012, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

While I agree with you on the success part, if Gose is the better defensive CF - why would you slide him over to LF? Not that I have a beef with Rasmus and his defense, just curious why you'd make the better of the two (if it pans out that way), change his position? It isn't like you'd be making Rasmus learn 3B, like Lind did (OF to 1B), as they are completely different positions. I don't think a shift from CF to LF is a major change, and something that could be ironed out over spring training. Is it a different read - sure. But everything else stays the same,

Plus, versatility is a huge thing to have. With Bautista, Rasmus, Marisnick, and Gose, we have some great players/prospects moving forward. Rasmus, Marisnick and Gose all have plenty of experience in CF and could all shift to one of the corners easily. I would really prefer to keep those 4 players for the long term and find pitching help via FA and trades involving Rajai Davis, JPA, Kelly Johnson, etc.

Otsy · 07-09-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

While I agree with you on the success part, if Gose is the better defensive CF - why would you slide him over to LF? Not that I have a beef with Rasmus and his defense, just curious why you'd make the better of the two (if it pans out that way), change his position? It isn't like you'd be making Rasmus learn 3B, like Lind did (OF to 1B), as they are completely different positions. I don't think a shift from CF to LF is a major change, and something that could be ironed out over spring training. Is it a different read - sure. But everything else stays the same,

I think Gose should play CF. But part of me thinks change is never that good for Rasmus, seems to play better when things are the same as he's always been used to. Didn't hit well near the bottom half of the order so moved him up and he responded. Maybe you take away CF where you control the outfield and it poses some kind of mental block that affects his game. That's all just a theory, but I know management will get it right and the Jays should have a dominate outfield for years to come!

flames_1987 · 07-09-2012, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

Plus, versatility is a huge thing to have. With Bautista, Rasmus, Marisnick, and Gose, we have some great players/prospects moving forward. Rasmus, Marisnick and Gose all have plenty of experience in CF and could all shift to one of the corners easily. I would really prefer to keep those 4 players for the long term and find pitching help via FA and trades involving Rajai Davis, JPA, Kelly Johnson, etc.

I don't think any 3 of those players, even combined are going to get you much. JPA is one of the worst catchers in the entire major league. I also really dislike the free agency method as you usually end up overpaying for talent and aged talent at that.

It is still far to early to give up on Travis Snider at 23. The Jays have a log jam in the outfield and have a severe lack of starting pitching. This is not just speaking this season but going forward the Jays need to add a quality arm to that rotation. I think Gose is expendable because we have no idea if that bat can even come close to hitting major league pitching. I really don't know just how much value he gives you at LF to be quite honest

flames_1987 · 07-09-2012, 01:22 PM

I think we can all agree the Jays need starting pitching. Even with a healthy rotation this season, the Jays still lack a quality #3 pitcher to say the least. I'd just be interested to hear who people think the Jays should part with to get another arm.

dustyanddaflames · 07-09-2012, 01:32 PM

I wouldn't be opposed to sending out an projectable arm with one of Thames/Arencibia to land a solid 3rd option. I agree in that JPA is one of the league's worst catchers, but he can still swat 20+ home runs from behind the dish, and that may be appealing to quite a few playoff bound teams.

I mean, B. Molina was the catcher on a World Series roster... You don't think a team would pay to replace him with JPA? You add in a projectable arm like a Nestor Molina, you should be able to net yourself a pretty solid 3rd starter I feel.

showtime · 07-09-2012, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

I wouldn't be opposed to sending out an projectable arm with one of Thames/Arencibia to land a solid 3rd option. I agree in that JPA is one of the league's worst catchers, but he can still swat 20+ home runs from behind the dish, and that may be appealing to quite a few playoff bound teams.

I mean, B. Molina was the catcher on a World Series roster... You don't think a team would pay to replace him with JPA? You add in a projectable arm like a Nestor Molina, you should be able to net yourself a pretty solid 3rd starter I feel.

They should be looking at moving Johnson too. Since we will lose him for nothing otherwise as i dont see them offering him 12 mil a year to secure the picks. Johnson,JPA, prospect (Molina was dealt to CHW last year) should be able to get you an arm.

flames_1987 · 07-09-2012, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

I wouldn't be opposed to sending out an projectable arm with one of Thames/Arencibia to land a solid 3rd option. I agree in that JPA is one of the league's worst catchers, but he can still swat 20+ home runs from behind the dish, and that may be appealing to quite a few playoff bound teams.

I mean, B. Molina was the catcher on a World Series roster... You don't think a team would pay to replace him with JPA? You add in a projectable arm like a Nestor Molina, you should be able to net yourself a pretty solid 3rd starter I feel.

Thames has even less value then JPA. I just don't see with soo many buyers in this market and so many after starting pitching, why anyone team would give away a #3 guy for an offer like that. I think a team or two might add JPA if he was a free agent, but nobody is giving up value for him as he's an upgrade over almost nobody at the position. Playoff bound teams usually are not ones who are looking to get ride of anyone in the top part of their rotation at all. I don't think the Jays have any starters in AA or AAA right now they'd want to really part with or a lot that have a high value right now.

403ep3 · 07-09-2012, 01:50 PM

10th in runs scored
11th in hits
11th in doubles
4th in HRs
8th in RBIs

Although his Avg, Strikeouts, OBP, SLG, OPS are mediocore, he's not as bad as you say he is. I could see him bringing in some sort of return..

flames_1987 · 07-09-2012, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by showtime

They should be looking at moving Johnson too. Since we will lose him for nothing otherwise as i dont see them offering him 12 mil a year to secure the picks. Johnson,JPA, prospect (Molina was dealt to CHW last year) should be able to get you an arm.

I think he was referring to that type of pitcher with re: to Molina.

Who do we go with for everyday 2nd basemen then? And catcher? Jeff Mathis is even worse then JPA.

flames_1987 · 07-09-2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 403ep3

10th in runs scored
11th in hits
11th in doubles
4th in HRs
8th in RBIs

Although his Avg, Strikeouts, OBP, SLG, OPS are mediocore, he's not as bad as you say he is. I could see him bringing in some sort of return..

Those stats really don't mean anything. The stats that matter, he is just an awful catcher who doesn't walk and isn't that strong behind the plate at all. There could be some interest for some team perhaps but I don't think they give you anything in return for value. He's not going to be a piece to any big deal for an arm. I could see a contending team picking him up as a backup catcher or power bat off the bench but it wouldn't be for that much nor do I think the Jays are really in the mood to part with him considering D'arnauds injury.

flames_1987 · 07-09-2012, 01:58 PM

He has an OBP of .261

dustyanddaflames · 07-09-2012, 02:04 PM

That's the thing none of us know yet - are they Jays going to stay in this race for much longer, and if not, at what point do you decide to sell off? There are a lot of intriguing pieces the Jays have that could sell at the deadline - Oliver, Encarnacion (though I'd prefer they keep him), Thames, Snider, etc. If you do become a seller, you don't sell JPA unless you are 100% sure that D'Arnaud is going to be your every day catcher at the big league level next year - and only AA knows this.

I'm honestly not sure what the Jays do - we aren't outta the race yet, but we are sure doing everything possible to get there.

Also - I think one might be surprised at the amount of #3 starters that could come available. You could see a wave of arms coming up from AA or AAA (Bauer, Pomeranz, etc.), that could make others available. There are quite a few big arms in the minors that are knocking at the door for a big league promotion.

JayP · 07-09-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 403ep3

10th in runs scored
11th in hits
11th in doubles
4th in HRs
8th in RBIs

Although his Avg, Strikeouts, OBP, SLG, OPS are mediocore, he's not as bad as you say he is. I could see him bringing in some sort of return..

Although his important numbers are terrible, at least he puts up great counting stats! JPA hits homers. That's about all he does productive offensively. Hitting homers gives him a reasonable amount of RBIs and makes his ancient triple slash line look good for 2/3 of it.

Unfortunately most MLB GMs dig a little deeper than AVG/HR/RBI and can see the same flaws he's had his whole career (and by that I mean the minors as well). He's never been a good defensive catcher. He's never been a good contact hitter. He's never had a good approach at the plate. He has the great power, but he needs one of those other 3 tools to be considered a valuable asset at catcher.

flames_1987 · 07-09-2012, 02:09 PM

By everything AA says the team will look to improve the 2012 team and not be sellers. Now I don't think they have any shot at all at the playoffs, so I could see them being minor sellers. Davis, Oliver and perhaps Johnson.

So many teams need pitchers right now, a ton of injuries and a lack of good starting pitching depth. Arms will become available though I imagine in the near future, and I think the Jays will get one, I'm just thinking they'll have to give up quite a bit as the Jays will be looking for someone long term at he #3 position which takes a decent chunk out of some of the players that will be available.

Karl · 07-09-2012, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 403ep3

10th in runs scored
11th in hits
11th in doubles
4th in HRs
8th in RBIs

Although his Avg, Strikeouts, OBP, SLG, OPS are mediocore, he's not as bad as you say he is. I could see him bringing in some sort of return..

BA of 225. with 76 Strikeouts, an OBP of 261, SLG % of 426 and an OPS of 687 is not even mediocre. It's actually quite sh#tty.

dustyanddaflames · 07-09-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flames_1987

By everything AA says the team will look to improve the 2012 team and not be sellers. Now I don't think they have any shot at all at the playoffs, so I could see them being minor sellers. Davis, Oliver and perhaps Johnson.

So many teams need pitchers right now, a ton of injuries and a lack of good starting pitching depth. Arms will become available though I imagine in the near future, and I think the Jays will get one, I'm just thinking they'll have to give up quite a bit as the Jays will be looking for someone long term at he #3 position which takes a decent chunk out of some of the players that will be available.

Ya, I remember seeing a quote somewhere that AA is only looking for arms that are under control past this season.