Paternity Leave Rant

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Parents do require different treatment than non parents. I'm not really addressing the OP per se, but rather the people complaining about their coworkers being granted leeway that they are not.

Like it or not, it does take a village to raise a child and we are all part of that village. You picking up a coworker's slack is part of your responsibility in raising the next generation so the coworker is free to do the more important job of raising their kids.

A kid's doctor's appointment, first day of kindergarten, an illness...it's all way more important than any job. People with young kids also have to leave on time. They have to relieve their child minders, cook their kids a nutritious supper and get them into bed all by the time people without kids have kicked back on the couch to watch a couple Seinfeld reruns. Plus the parents have to be having fun with their kids, teach their kids and discipline their kids. It's a Herculean job and responsibility.

And when you see your coworker leave early, don't resent them because you think you have to work harder because of their absence. No matter what you do, it's 10x easier than the 24/7 job they are going home to. The job you share with them...it's a welcome break in their day from the job of raising kids that is actually hard (I'm talking parents of kids that are 0-2.5 or so).

I used to think like you guys before I had kids when I was in my 20s. Now I know better. I get where you are coming from, but frankly you just don't have enough life experience to know how wrong you are.

It's way more important TO YOU than your job, not to me. I have no connection with your kids. No matter how sick your kids get, it's not like I'd lose sleep over it. I'd cover for you once in awhile out of the kindness of my heart, but I am under no obligation to help you should I choose not to. That is some sense of entitlement you have there IMO. If you are forced to sacrifice vacation time to care for your kids, then that's your problem, not mine.

Having a coworker cover for you because they're understanding and want to help you out personally is fine. Expecting them to do so because it's part of their responsibility is just asinine. I know if you told me that straight out, I'd tell you to shove it and find someone else to do it.

[HHW]

Agreed that parenthood is a choice, and that no one should expect an easier ride at work.

However, it does take a village; the word entitlement is thrown around. Are we as a society now so hedonistic and selfish that we can't at least show a semblance of mutual interest in raising a new generation?

And, consider who is going to pay taxes to support you when you are done living the good child-free life and collecting your pension?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by HHW

Agreed that parenthood is a choice, and that no one should expect an easier ride at work.

However, it does take a village; the word entitlement is thrown around. Are we as a society now so hedonistic and selfish that we can't at least show a semblance of mutual interest in raising a new generation?

And, consider who is going to pay taxes to support you when you are done living the good child-free life and collecting your pension?

Our tax system is currently set to favor families with children than couples. So people who choose not To have kids pay more in tax and dont take advantage of the programs directed at kids.

[HHW]

Originally Posted by GGG

Our tax system is currently set to favor families with children than couples. So people who choose not To have kids pay more in tax and dont take advantage of the programs directed at kids.

True to an extent for present services, but support services for the elderly are paid for by and large by the currently working. Just see how well an aging population is working for Japan.

Besides, when i'm an old fart I don't want to be surrounded only by other crotchety old farts telling me about how much they golfed and travelled because they were so wise to not have kids.

[V]

Sliver appears to be the equivalent to Facebook Mom, that annoying person that loves to tell you how horrific raising kids is, but then tells you that they wouldn't want it any other way because, well, I've never figured that one out.

Geez man, I've got four kids and I don't suffer from this horrible affliction that you seem to endure. And not once have I expected my co-workers to cover for me because of my personal life. And I certainly don't hold my staff to different rules depending on their personal life at home. I can't imagine one of my staff telling me that they are entitled to be covered because Johnny has music lessons.

[Sliver]

I'm sure glad my employees have me as a boss and not one of you guys. I can't imagine what the 25 year-old single mother of a three year-old (her husband is still in India trying to get over here) would do if I wasn't flexible about her start time. We start work at 7:00 am. Her daycare doesn't open until 6:30, then she has to drive from the NE to the SE. Sometimes she is on time and sometimes she is five to 20 minutes late. I would never give her grief for this and as the business owner I expect her coworkers to work a little harder in her absence. The employees that don't have the responsibility of small kids? They better be on time or have a very good excuse.

When her kid is sick I let her stay home to nurse him guilt free. She is paid by the hour but I'll sometimes throw a few extra hours on her pay cheque if I can see her hours are short because she's had issues with her child and has had to miss work. I know some bosses would not care about her situation, but I can see her situation from her perspective and can see she needs some extra support from her village.

Maybe some of you guys are in a parenting situation that for whatever reason isn't difficult, but you are remiss in your responsibility as a member of society to think you are excused from the big-picture effort required from us all to raise and help raise the next generation.

[Rathji]

I am amazed how many people get out of joint because they have to cover for a co-worker.

I guess I am just lucky because the people I work with have kids, so we use our flex time to its fullest to make sure we are there for them when we need to be. Plus the ability to work remotely makes it a lot easier to make sure there is coverage at work. As my boss says, as long as the work gets done, I don't care when you do it.

If I had someone who was always leaving and never making up the time, then I might be irked as well, I guess.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by flamefan74

What an assinine comment.

And entitled is thinking that I should cover your ass at work because you have children. Sorry, but your child is not more important than me. Learned that the hard way after a failed marriage, physical exhaustion, and stress from an increased workload due to your little Johnny. But I guess that's just part of the sacrifice I'm supposed to give for raising a child in today's society.

Wait a second here. Are you saying you got divorced, stressed and exhausted because a coworker had a kid? I may be reading that totally wrong so hopefully you can clarify your point.

[FlamesAddiction]

My beef isn't with the occasional inconvenience of someone being late or taking the day off because they are a parent. It's the double standard and favouritism that occurs because someone's life is deemed more stressful or important because they have a child, that they get to pawn off work stress to the people without children. I don't mind picking up slack when unpredictable situations occur, but what I don't like is hearing that someone gets to pick and choose what work they can do because having a child is stressful and makes it hard to sleep.

People all around you are dealing with non-work related stress (sick parents, money problems, unemployed spouse, legal problems, basement flooding, etc...), and they are still expected to deal with work responsibilities to same level. I don't think it's right for one person to be able to avoid difficult aspects of their job because they made a lifestyle choice that I did not make. You get your paternity/maternity holiday as is your right, but after that, you should be fair game in the rat race like everyone else.

I promise to do my best to act in a socially responsible manner as to not harm your child, and I will intervene to help if I seem them in danger, but that is where my village responsibility ends.

[bossy22]

I think I've been pretty lucky with my kids and my jobs. I've been in IT for twenty years and have had kids for 14 years. When the first was born, I was given an office so I could nap and lunch time. I had non sleepers so I was exhausted. I'd show up at 6 am have a nap for 30 min at noon, then work till 4-5pm and go home. Nobody, cared.
I moved to Telus, went through a divorce. All m,y co-workers where awesome and supportive. I was a mess, they covered for me when things where bad. When things where good, I made up my time and everyone was good with that. I ended up shared custody of my kids, so when I had the kids, I worked a 6.5-7 hr day, when I didn't have them I worked a 10 hr day. I moved to Bell, same thing. Supper supportive co-workers and management. I was always upfront about my situation and as long as I did my job, nobody cared. Sometimes I'd just work from home because it was easier. Then I went to Shaw. They where the company at preached "family first", but gave me nothing about grief. I was upfront about my situation, but they where the least flexible. My co-workers again, we're great. Management on the other hand, where the opposite. I think I was spoiled from everywhere else and I couldn't adjust to Shaws ways. I wasn't allowed to work through lunch so I could leave early. If I had to leave early, I got the when are you making up the time? Question. I've always made up my time. If I had a sick kid I'd work from home, but would be told to take vacation time because it wasn't allowed, which didn't make sense because I was required to do work in the evenings regularly and could work from home then. Anyways, shaw sucked, so when I had the opportunity to go on parental leave I took it and never went back...boy to I miss adults. I love my kids but man does the conversation suck. And I hate kids tv.

I guess I understand both views. I never felt privileged, but found that if my employer was flexible, I sure worked harder for them because I appreciated it.

[Sliver]

Yeah FlamesAddiction, you have a totally legitimate beef. Your coworker shirked his responsibility to create a smoother transition for his exit and it is unfair that you have to work way harder because of it. Hopefully your company can come up with some sort of compensation for you to help balance this out. I think you have every right to start making some demands here. Good luck dude. My posts were in response to some other comments in here, not your OP.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by fotze

As a parent I totally disagree with this village business. My kid not yours. Having a kid was for my own selfish reasons. Not your problem at all. There have been 10 odd billion kids raised on this planet. It no longer takes a village.

You don't think your coworkers have ever had to pick up your slack because of your kids? Did you take time off when they were born? Have you ever operated at a lower level because of lack of sleep? You ever come in late or left early to deal with kid crap? Are you sick more often because you have kids?

I don't think it is possible for somebody with kids to operate at the same level as somebody without kids for the full 18 years it takes to raise them. Situations can be different and affect just how much a parent will be less capable (level of parental help, temperament of kids, spousal obligations, etc.), but every parent is going to be less productive at work to a degree compared to the non-parent version of themselves. This translates into more work for coworkers, plain and simple.

[albertGQ]

I am a father to two young boys. I took time off when they were born but I used my vacation days. I don't get extra vacation days because I have two kids. I don't get more sick days because I have have two kids.

It may take a village to raise kids, but my coworkers are not in my village. My village consists of my in laws, my brothers, my dad, and my step mom. They help raise my child, not my co workers, not my boss, not my assistant

[SportsJunky]

We have a baby and a toddler at home right now and we are zombies for the most part. I think what really suffers isn't work (I work many nights to get my projects done on time after the kids are in bed) and it isn't parenting (it comes first no matter what) - what suffers is 'me' time or 'us' time. That's the killer.

The 'it takes a village stuff' isn't something I necessarily subscribe to but I do think it has a ring of truth to it. People tend to work around our schedule now just as we did theirs in the days when they had young kids and we didn't yet. I have had people let me cut in line if I have a cranky kid in my arms. I have had complete strangers offer to watch my kids for a minute at a play centre or a restaurant so I can go grab something. So it does take a village and I see it all the time. Thankfully.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by GGG

Our tax system is currently set to favor families with children than couples. So people who choose not To have kids pay more in tax and dont take advantage of the programs directed at kids.

I don't have kids, but I've always felt the taxes I pay towards the school system are to cover my past education. Everyone goes to school as a kid, everyone pays taxes to cover schools as an adult. Seems fair to me.

[GirlySports]

You should cover as much as possible but you shouldn't have to cancel your vacation if your boss had approved it already. The manager's job is to balance workload within her team. It's not like the baby suddenly popped out! Didn't your co-worker tell your boss he was going on paternity leave?

[The Yen Man]

My annoyance with Silver's comments isn't the fact that I get upset covering a co-worker if they have a kid emergency. As a good co-worker, and as a friend, I have no problems covering for someone if they need it. But the reason I'm doing it is because I want to, not because some self righteous parent tells me its my responsibility to because I somehow have an obligation to care for the next generation.

[mykalberta]

Do you have to take on the persons clients, what if no one takes them on? Will he lose them? Are you getting paid extra for clients that used to be his?

You are under no obligation to help him out, if the company doesnt want to hire someone to cover his "mat leave" then let them go to a competitor.

He should have been the one to schedule his clients around his mat leave, not screw you over. You are under no obligation IMO to help him out. As for the when he gets back he will be stressed and want to get back to his kids - that is bs. He decided to have a child, he has to take responsibility for it. If he is unable to complete his work when he returns then his pay will decrease.

[DuffMan]

take your holidays, tell your boss to fill in for Joe.

[YYC in LAX]

I've never heard of a company not hiring a temp or mat leave position for someone on maternity or paternity leave. Employers responsibility to ensure they have the resources to get the work done.