Bow River Flow

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by jammies

Sorry, I already have my application in for rocket car races. Unless you're interested in a dual-purpose closure, where your people can drive slow in the left lane and my rocket jockeys will strew their flaming wreckage all over the median after destroying them with gatling lasers.

I do like your satire though - well done! Satire vs satire in a war for ironic domination!

I like your ideas, and I think the Bow Valley Flow festival could also really benefit from adding some dash and flash like that. I guarantee you, if the festival could somehow incorporate lasers or explosions or blowing things up, or smashing up cars, or driving over cars with other cars and smashing them up, or exploding cars, or bikini-clad girls driving trucks smashing and exploding cars, you'd have a winner on your hands there, that any red blooded Mackenzie Towne resident would gladly drive (or even walk!) downtown to see.

None of this hemp weaving and vegan cooking nonsense that the festival is all about now.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by jammies

So what you're implying is that the administration should have told Druh that her idea was silly and she couldn't have her road closure? 'Cause otherwise I'm not sure what exactly the administration did wrong here, they followed the process to grant said road closure impartially - which is as it should be, isn't it?.

When the process results in bad decisions either the process if lawed or the wrong people are making the decisions.

Originally Posted by jammies

As far as coming up with ideas goes, what process should they be using? From what I see, council members come up with ideas and/or present them from their constituents, then they are debated as to their worth or appropriateness, and then they are voted upon. Both the operation of and the genesis of city initiatives are unremarkable and ordinary; I'm not seeing where the process is the problem, as it is the same, time-tested process almost every other municipal council in the world uses.

It may not be the process. Perhaps Druh simply needs to be blamed for starting the entire mess.

Originally Posted by jammies

Should Bronco be brandishing the iron fist for council members who don't agree with his agenda of roads, roads, roads for the people? Should the voters be forced to endure a "do-over" when they vote for ditzy or demagogue alderpeople? Open warfare between the suburbs and the core until one stands bloodily victorious?

I don't buy into this suburbs v. core thing that people keep trying to turn this into. That's not with this about. A lot of people in the core didn't like the idea.

Originally Posted by jammies

That's th e issue I have with this brouhaha: there's all this outrage, yet it seems to be directed nowhere useful. What alternative strategy - other than just not voting Druh in next election - is going to stop this kind of "problem" (which, to reiterate, I don't think is a problem in the first place) from occurring again? Does anyone on the anti-closure side have a point other than that they don't like the idea and wish somehow it could have been prevented by some unnamed and unimaginable power?

If bad ideas like this are brought forward they should not be approved. Simple as that - and I'm sure somehow the process allow for stupid idea to be shot down.

Originally Posted by jammies

Although this is really a broader philosophical question, I will say that all of us are forced to act from imperfect knowledge. I don't *know* what methods people use to arrive at their opinions, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible to make a reasonably probable guess. If that makes me an assumptionist, I guess I'll live with it.

You can make a guess if you want - just realize it is a guess and nothing more.

I think it's unnecessary to try and guess how people arrive at their conclusions and get in their heads because everyone's noodle works differently.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

No I was not there on Sunday because I heard about it on here and checked out the site. After reading about it I realized that it was not worth my time so I stayed home and did yard work.

So for the 7 blocks that were closed off you saw a dozen people on the road, holy crap I take everything back, how did they move around?

I do not subscribe to the "Ric McIvor" junk, I read about it and saw pictures of the event including the line of traffic and people on the paths and road. Just because you were not there does not mean that you do not know anything about it. Do you believe things you see in the news? Were you there to say that they are true? If not how do you know they are right?

Way to misquote me. Where did I say I only saw a dozen people on the road? I said I saw way MORE than a dozen in the brief time I was there.

I don't even understand your next paragraph, I am actually getting confused trying to understand what you are saying here. You are saying you saw it on the news, but then go on to question if what we see in the media is the truth? Do you believe I (who has no personal stake in this festival) would lie about seeing more than a dozen people using the road just to prove you wrong and use it to further support those that had no problem with this event?

Do I believe everything I see on the news? Absolutely not, especially in light of seeing how certain things in this city have been potrayed by all levels of media lately. The only way to know the full truth is to go and find out for yourself if the subject interests you enough.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

When the process results in bad decisions either the process if lawed or the wrong people are making the decisions.

Whoa, that statement is pretty loaded. What process or individual can ever live up to that?

In a complex environment I can't think of many processes that are going to come up with "good" decisions 100% of the time. Some processes come up with better decisions more often, but if you know how to improve the process I'm sure someone would love to hear about it.

And even after that, it comes down to people, and people are far from perfect.

Finally, who decides if the decision is good or bad? It seems like a pretty subjective thing.


In this specific case, the event is over and done with. Forget about it, nothing can change what has happened. It is water under the bridge, spilt milk, {insert metaphor here}

Did the process fail, and if so where? Memorial is closed for other events and no one has ever complained about those. I'm pretty sure I don't want city council debating every proposed road closure. I believe the articles from the very beginning said the Roads department had looked at the traffic impact and decided the road would be able to hand the constriction at that time. Perhaps those standards need to be looked at.

If it is the person then there are already mechanisms in place. If she is doing a bad thing for he constituents she can be voted out. I'm not sure if there is any sort of recall mechanism, but that is an option also. But if her constituents support her doing these events in their constituency, I'm not sure you can blame the person.

And finally, it seems like a pretty divided opinion on whether the decision was "good" or "bad". And the rhetoric being thrown around ("Epic fail" tag) probably isn't helping create any sort of consensus.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Memorial is closed for other events and no one has ever complained about those.

My problem has never been about closing Memorial or any other street for an event. My issue here has been closing a street hoping that some kind of event would spring up.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

bunch of stuff.

And again we go around in circles.
I think the idea was poor and the decision to approve it was poor.
A road of some significance was closed before a concept had taken shape.

But we've re-hashed all this time and time again - it keeps coming back to the same basic points of disagreement.

[moncton golden flames]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Where is a better location?

in my opinion, there are 2 better places that do not include closing a major east/west artery.

1. north side of river, between 14 st & 10 st. the bike path & walking path diverge and create a large space in between. a great spot to set up a small festival centered around the river and the pathways. it's also right next to the city of calgary outdoor resource center.

2. riley park...nuff said.

[octothorp]

It's almost Druh Farrell day again! Who's going? It actually looks much better this year, I might wander through.

[Traditional_Ale]

I'm engineering the mainstage. And if all goes well, running it on batteries.

[Resolute 14]

Oh, what a shame. This idiocy has been cancelled.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/06/21...es-end-of-road

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Oh, what a shame. This idiocy has been cancelled.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/06/21...es-end-of-road

Damn, for a second I thought you meant Rick Bell.

[The Goon]

I like that Rick Bell guy. He seems delightfully crazy.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Damn, for a second I thought you meant Rick Bell.

Heh. Would have been nice to get a two-fer on this one, eh?

[Bigtime]

I have mixed feelings on this. The event was based on a model that many other cities around the world have used to great results to open up a space and let it become part of the pedestrian/bike realm for a set period.

However the main organizing group (the Arusha Centre I believe) went way overboard in their anti-commercialization of the event. Not even having a single food or beverage stand along the entire route is just ridiculous (especially in the heat of last year). You do need more than just sidewalk chalk and some other toys to keep people interested in what is going on. Had they at least allowed some vendors and food and beverage I think that could have helped change the perception for most of the public substantially. As it stood the hardline approach really rubbed the majority of people the wrong way, and only led to strengthening negative stereotypes of the event and the people that attend it.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I have mixed feelings on this. The event was based on a model that many other cities around the world have used to great results to open up a space and let it become part of the pedestrian/bike realm for a set period.

However the main organizing group (the Arusha Centre I believe) went way overboard in their anti-commercialization of the event. Not even having a single food or beverage stand along the entire route is just ridiculous (especially in the heat of last year). You do need more than just sidewalk chalk and some other toys to keep people interested in what is going on. Had they at least allowed some vendors and food and beverage I think that could have helped change the perception for most of the public substantially. As it stood the hardline approach really rubbed the majority of people the wrong way, and only led to strengthening negative stereotypes of the event and the people that attend it.

I never had gone to one, but this is my feelings about it too. Still, it really is a shame that there was negative media spin on the event.

How about we pool some fund on CP to have a CP festival the same day it would have been?

[MarchHare]

Oh good, now I won't be stuck in traffic on Memorial on a random Sunday when I wouldn't have been anywhere near Memorial anyway.

[Ironhorse]

Maybe they should have dragged out some old tires and painted them. Perhaps do some potato planting also.

[bizaro86]

So basically, it died of natural causes (disinterest/lack of organization)?

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

So basically, it died of natural causes (disinterest/lack of organization)?

I think it had plenty of organization, but it was that organization that took an event that started off polarizing people and only served to put more fuel on that fire with ridiculous things like making it non-commercial and damn near impossible to get food or drink at it.

They came across as the ultimate in granola-crunching yuppies, probably not the best strategy to get more people interested in coming down to your event. Although I do believe the numbers were growing in attendance, but things definitely needed to change to make it a better event.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I think it had plenty of organization, but it was that organization that took an event that started off polarizing people and only served to put more fuel on that fire with ridiculous things like making it non-commercial and damn near impossible to get food or drink at it.

They came across as the ultimate in granola-crunching yuppies, probably not the best strategy to get more people interested in coming down to your event. Although I do believe the numbers were growing in attendance, but things definitely needed to change to make it a better event.

So basically, it died of natural causes (disinterest/lack of organization)?