Can you trust Justin Trudeau and the Liberal Party?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by starseed

If Trudeau is elected leader, I will have no idea what to do. That would prove the Liberals, as a party, still don't get it. He is far too young and naive to be the leader of our country.

Agreed.

It's not Trudeau's time. He's nowhere near ready. I hope he can see that.

If the Liberals hope to taken seriously, IMO, they need a serious candidate, ideally an 'elder statesman' type, preferably untainted by the Cretian years.

The Frank McKenna suggestion made by another poster was an interesting one.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

It's not Trudeau's time. He's nowhere near ready.

This assumption that he will be ready to lead us someday bugs me. People talk about him like he is royalty and is being groomed to lead us. Canada is a meritocracy, he should earn the position before we start talking about him having it.
I can't remember any other politician who was talked about so much in advance. Maybe Belinda Stronach but we all know how that turned out.

Thinking of the other major parties I can't think of anyone who is being groomed for the leadership job. Sure, there are going to be people who aspire to the position everywhere and they will try to get their name out there and increase their profile, but the media/public doesn't assume the will be the leader eventually with only the date up in the air.

With Justin, there has been speculation that he would be the leader dating back before he ever ran as an MP.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

With Justin, there has been speculation that he would be the leader dating back before he ever ran as an MP.

This is why it is so difficult to take him seriously as a PM candidate. I detest the whole idea of hereditary privilege, which is what the Justin Trudeau hype embodies.

[Daradon]

I agree that Trudeau is nowhere ready now, and may never be. I don't think he is the best choice for the country or even the Liberal Party.

But I chuckle at some of the comments being made about the Liberals chances or appeal. Even if you disagree with their policies you have to know that Ontario and Quebec (and many other ridings) are way more comfortable voting for them even after all that has happened, than the CPC. A lot of Harpers moves are not helping. I don't think Harper has been any worse than the previous Liberal majority, but he certainly hasn't been any better. The best times were during the minority actually. And I do think Canadian politics is heading down that road more often than not.

I would actually be very worried as a CPC supporter. Probably why the thread has been titled (and re-titled) the way it is. It's silly and combative right from the start and reads like a CPC sponsored ad.

[Cheese]

Trudeaumania Part deux: New poll suggests Trudeau would be PM if he was Liberal leader


According to a new Angus Reid poll released Monday, if Trudeau became the leader of the Liberals he would catapult the party from third place to first place virtually overnight.
A Liberal Party led by Pierre Trudeau's son would become the national frontrunner (40 per cent), with substantial leads over Stephen Harper's Conservatives (30 per cent) and Tom Mulcair's NDP (21 per cent).


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canad...173335433.html

- He's got more charisma than the royal family and Lady Gaga combined. In Ottawa, which is Hollywood for ugly people, that matters. On the election hustings, when measured against Trudeau, Stephen Harper and Thomas Mulcair will look like Angry Old Guys.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Trudeaumania Part deux: New poll suggests Trudeau would be PM if he was Liberal leader


According to a new Angus Reid poll released Monday, if Trudeau became the leader of the Liberals he would catapult the party from third place to first place virtually overnight.
A Liberal Party led by Pierre Trudeau's son would become the national frontrunner (40 per cent), with substantial leads over Stephen Harper's Conservatives (30 per cent) and Tom Mulcair's NDP (21 per cent).


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canad...173335433.html

- He's got more charisma than the royal family and Lady Gaga combined. In Ottawa, which is Hollywood for ugly people, that matters. On the election hustings, when measured against Trudeau, Stephen Harper and Thomas Mulcair will look like Angry Old Guys.

All that's really saying is that the people who responded to the survey really just want Pierre 2.0 and Justin is riding name recognition to success. If he decides to run for the Liberal leadership, and if he wins the nomination, you can be sure the Conservative attack machine will go into overdrive highlighting Justin's inexperience and other drawbacks.

It also shows how weak the NDP's support is. I think many voters, especially in Ontario and Atlantic Canada, are sick of Harper's antics and are grudgingly putting their support behind the party with the best chance to defeat the CPC. That's currently the NDP, but things could change quickly depending who the Liberals choose for their leader.

As a self-described "blue liberal", is it really too much to ask for a party that's fiscally responsible but socially progressive? For a variety of reasons, I can't support either the CPC or the NDP, but the Liberals sure have been uninspiring over the last few elections.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

All that's really saying is that the people who responded to the survey really just want Pierre 2.0 and Justin is riding name recognition to success. If he decides to run for the Liberal leadership, and if he wins the nomination, you can be sure the Conservative attack machine will go into overdrive highlighting Justin's inexperience and other drawbacks.

It also shows how weak the NDP's support is. I think many voters, especially in Ontario and Atlantic Canada, are sick of Harper's antics and are grudgingly putting their support behind the party with the best chance to defeat the CPC. That's currently the NDP, but things could change quickly depending who the Liberals choose for their leader.

As a self-described "blue liberal", is it really too much to ask for a party that's fiscally responsible but socially progressive? For a variety of reasons, I can't support either the CPC or the NDP, but the Liberals sure have been uninspiring over the last few elections.

I agree. I think part of it might be people who don't like either the CPC or NDP just looking for an excuse to vote Liberal.

Maybe Trudeau would be a great leader or maybe a total failure - he hasn't really been in a position where he can show what he'd be like. Between my innate Alberta dislike of the word "Trudeau" and my strong beliefs against any sort of hereditary authority I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt personally. If he pays his dues and shows that he could be a good leader - not just having the charisma, but the vision, intelligence, etc. - then I'd try to overcome my prejudice against him, but I can't think of anything significant he's accomplished on his own so far.

[CaptainCrunch]

The poll really means nothing, its easy to be popular when you're not the leader of your party with a microphone jammed in your face all day. Its the easiest job in the world like being the backup QB on a team behind Manning.

But you put him firmly in the leaders circle and his support would drop quite a bit.

[Senator Clay Davis]

That poll has to be pretty troubling to the Conservatives future. That a guy who has name recognition alone can automatically put them ahead (and 10 points ahead at that) says to me as long as the Liberals field a competent leader, that the best case scenario for the Conservatives in 2015 is a minority again.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

That poll has to be pretty troubling to the Conservatives future. That a guy who has name recognition alone can automatically put them ahead (and 10 points ahead at that) says to me as long as the Liberals field a competent leader, that the best case scenario for the Conservatives in 2015 is a minority again.

I think that's likely to happen regardless. Both the NDP and the Harper Conservatives peaked in the last election, IMO. Realistically, I can't see the CPC picking up any more seats than they already have -- where would they come from: Quebec, the GTA, other urban centers? Those all seems unlikely. Not to mention much of Harper's soft support is evaporating after the recent missteps by the Conservatives, although that might be forgotten by 2015 if he can govern responsibly over the remaining years of his mandate.

Similarly, I think the NDP surge was largely based around Jack Layton's personal popularity. I doubt many of those rookie parachute candidates in Quebec will win re-election, likely losing their seats to the BQ or maybe the Liberals depending on their leader.

[Flash Walken]

These arbitrary party lines are interesting to me as an outsider.

March, you classify yourself as a 'blue liberal', liberal on social issues, conservative on economic issues. In that description, I'd probably group myself. Where we diverge though is I could never entertain the thought of voting conservative in this iteration because they don't fulfill either of those designations. Certainly they aren't socially liberal (and in fact are against the grain to the majority of Canadians socially, even many conservatives) and they don't appear to be fiscally conservative.

You'd think there would be more division on this board about the conservatives based on how they have governed for the last decade. There isn't even a cult of personality; Harper likely goes down as one of the most boring and unlikeable Prime Ministers in the last hundred years.

What Slava wrote about 'the west wants in' strikes me as particularly poignant. Are Albertans any better off with a Calgarian as Prime Minister vs., say, Paul Martin? In some respects, they're likely worse off.

Even the dyed in the wool conservatives on this board have made mention of the CPC 'losing their vote'. Now, I don't believe for a second that is actually the case, however, to say it out loud is clearly an indication of attitude.

Quite frankly, March, the conclusion I draw at the end of your post is that you aren't so much a 'blue liberal' as you are a 'liberal living in Alberta and therefore classifying yourself as a 'blue liberal'.

I think if more Albertans could entertain the idea that they don't have to be 'conservative' to be conservative, the political landscape of the province and nation would see a dramatic shift.

[CaptainCrunch]

The Liberal's still have a long ways to go before they're any kind of credible threat, and Mulcair could spell the end of Jackmania before everything is said and done. While its possible that there might be a major shift from the conservatives across the floor, its just as likely that the Liberals pull a panic move and plant young Justin as a leader and he gets explosed as a airhead with charisma and none of the political ruthlessness of his father.

Plus my bet is the next election is Harper's last and they'll be pushing hard to cement his legacy.

[Flash Walken]

Does anyone on this board like Steven Harper?

I don't think I've ever read a glowing endorsement of him, personally.

[CaptainCrunch]

Like him, like like him personally?

Probably not, but I do respect the man.

I don't vote for people that I like like.

But I can't think of a single prime minister that I've liked.

I can think of a few that should have been shot out of a cannon into the sun though.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I don't know if I'd count a 2015 Conservative majority out yet. I mean they can robo call a little here, gerrymander a few districts there and lo and behold they keep their majority.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Like him, like like him personally?

Probably not, but I do respect the man.

I don't vote for people that I like like.

But I can't think of a single prime minister that I've liked.

I can think of a few that should have been shot out of a cannon into the sun though.

You didn't like Preston Manning?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I don't know if I'd count a 2015 Conservative majority out yet. I mean they can robo call a little here, gerrymander a few districts there and lo and behold they keep their majority.

And hey, maybe the Liberal's can stuff a few envelopes with cash and re-activate their Quebec distribution network

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

These arbitrary party lines are interesting to me as an outsider.

March, you classify yourself as a 'blue liberal', liberal on social issues, conservative on economic issues. In that description, I'd probably group myself. Where we diverge though is I could never entertain the thought of voting conservative in this iteration because they don't fulfill either of those designations. Certainly they aren't socially liberal (and in fact are against the grain to the majority of Canadians socially, even many conservatives) and they don't appear to be fiscally conservative.

You'd think there would be more division on this board about the conservatives based on how they have governed for the last decade. There isn't even a cult of personality; Harper likely goes down as one of the most boring and unlikeable Prime Ministers in the last hundred years.

What Slava wrote about 'the west wants in' strikes me as particularly poignant. Are Albertans any better off with a Calgarian as Prime Minister vs., say, Paul Martin? In some respects, they're likely worse off.

Even the dyed in the wool conservatives on this board have made mention of the CPC 'losing their vote'. Now, I don't believe for a second that is actually the case, however, to say it out loud is clearly an indication of attitude.

Quite frankly, March, the conclusion I draw at the end of your post is that you aren't so much a 'blue liberal' as you are a 'liberal living in Alberta and therefore classifying yourself as a 'blue liberal'.

I think if more Albertans could entertain the idea that they don't have to be 'conservative' to be conservative, the political landscape of the province and nation would see a dramatic shift.

Wait, was I unclear about my political leanings at some point? I'm not sure that our political viewpoints are diverged at all -- I have never voted for the CPC in the past and am very unlikely to in the future unless a new leader significantly changes the direction of the party.

And I most certainly would classify myself as a "blue liberal" using the classic definition: fiscally conservative, socially progressive. In recent memory, the Canadian politicians whose policies I most strongly support are Paul Martin and Frank McKenna -- balance the budget, pay down the debt, enact business-friendly legislation to grow the economy, and move forward with progressive social policies (e.g. gay marriage). If that doesn't make me a blue liberal (or a "red tory", I guess), then what am I?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You didn't like Preston Manning?

Sorry, I'm still recovering from a concussion, was he prime minister before or after Mulrooney?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

If that doesn't make me a blue liberal (or a "red tory", I guess), then what am I?

A plain-jane liberal?