Can you trust Justin Trudeau and the Liberal Party?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The Liberal's were also the ones that screamed for heavy spending stimulus programs when the Conservatives took pwer at the start of the recession.

Must have been the correct course of action, since the Conservatives keeping pimping "their" economic action plan.

Stimulus spending in a recession is what you should do. The thing is you should also pay for it by running surpluses in the booms (which is also buffer room), and that's where the Conservatives screwed up. They saw the surplus as excessive taxation / insufficient spending rather than just part of the business cycle.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

All governments have had bad policies, all governments have had scandals though Chretien should probably stand as the most corrupt and cynical politician that this country has ever seen. Scandals happen, but lets be honest the whole robocall and f35 scandals still pale in comparison with the schemes that the Liberals pulled off

You forgot the Dean Del Mastro money laundering scheme, that one is a good one this week. It is sad that people do not care when a political party has an organized effort to try to thwart and avoid all electoral fairness rules and regulations. One would think democracy would be accorded a little more respect in this country.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

You forgot the Dean Del Mastro money laundering scheme, that one is a good one this week. It is sad that people do not care when a political party has an organized effort to try to thwart and avoid all electoral fairness rules and regulations. One would think democracy would be accorded a little more respect in this country.

I think you have a real problem with hyperbole...i have no doubt the guy was hiding what he spent on his campaign and should be held to task for doing it and whatever consequences that come with that...but money laundering?

Really?

Though I guess the Liberals would know it when they seeit as Chretian and Martin among other have first hand experience at it.

[FlamesAddiction]

I have no doubt that the Conservatives will prove to be just as corrupt as the Liberals after 2 majorities. You can't trust people in general to run a government and the more power they have, the worse it gets.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I have no doubt that the Conservatives will prove to be just as corrupt as the Liberals after 2 majorities. You can't trust people in general to run a government and the more power they have, the worse it gets.

I cannot disagree with that at all...and time will tell, but we cant just forget what we know already either as some sort of guide going forward.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I think you have a real problem with hyperbole...i have no doubt the guy was hiding what he spent on his campaign and should be held to task for doing it and whatever consequences that come with that...but money laundering?

Really?

Though I guess the Liberals would know it when they seeit as Chretian and Martin among other have first hand experience at it.

right, no one can see a thief unless they are one? On twitter yesterday there were rumours of charges filed against DDM, so you might want to take it easy in rushing to his defense here. I know its twitter, and you have to take it with a grain of salt (or maybe a tablespoon), but the sources are reputable. I don't understand how they were arriving at their conclusion exactly, but it was something about del Mastro wanted to meet with Elections Canada and they would only do so in a certain manner or under certain conditions. Because of that and how it was structured the reporter suggested it was possible that there are charges to be laid.

Now, (as if that terrible explanation wasn't enough!), I'm the last guy you should be trusting to explain this! All I know is that if an MP is implicated and there are rumours of charges I would be distancing myself.

It's sad to see that many CPC supporters are still fighting the "there are levels to cheating" battle. If a party tries to circumvent electoral laws it's game over to me. It's just purely unacceptable, regardless of whether they "would've won anyway".

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

right, no one can see a thief unless they are one? On twitter yesterday there were rumours of charges filed against DDM, so you might want to take it easy in rushing to his defense here. I know its twitter, and you have to take it with a grain of salt (or maybe a tablespoon), but the sources are reputable. I don't understand how they were arriving at their conclusion exactly, but it was something about del Mastro wanted to meet with Elections Canada and they would only do so in a certain manner or under certain conditions. Because of that and how it was structured the reporter suggested it was possible that there are charges to be laid.

Now, (as if that terrible explanation wasn't enough!), I'm the last guy you should be trusting to explain this! All I know is that if an MP is implicated and there are rumours of charges I would be distancing myself.

It's sad to see that many CPC supporters are still fighting the "there are levels to cheating" battle. If a party tries to circumvent electoral laws it's game over to me. It's just purely unacceptable, regardless of whether they "would've won anyway".

Right, i most certainly defended the guy...no question about it.

What is it you actually read in my posts?


Are you so blinded by liberal defense mechanisms that you missed this?

Originally Posted by me

i have no doubt the guy was hiding what he spent on his campaign and should be held to task for doing it and whatever consequences that come with that

The whole AdScam and Shawinigate things are out there...they happened, period. Are you denying this?

And again i am asking where the whole "money laundering" accusation is coming from. I have not read anything like that in regards to this MP....maybe i simply missed it, but all i have heard or read about this is in regards to improper spending and elections Canada not getting the answers they want....which are both bad enough on their own that adding a ficticious and polarizing charge of money laundering is just....hyperbole, which is all i said.

Good grief.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Right, i most certainly defended the guy...no question about it.

What is it you actually read in my posts?


Are you so blinded by liberal defense mechanisms that you missed this?



The whole AdScam and Shawinigate things are out there...they happened, period. Are you denying this?

And again i am asking where the whole "money laundering" accusation is coming from. I have not read anything like that in regards to this MP....maybe i simply missed it, but all i have heard or read about this is in regards to improper spending and elections Canada not getting the answers they want....which are both bad enough on their own that adding a ficticious and polarizing charge of money laundering is just....hyperbole, which is all i said.

Good grief.

I read that, and that's fine. I obviously took issue with the "takes one to know one" line of thought. If that isn't trying to defend the guy, then why else would you post it?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

I read that, and that's fine. I obviously took issue with the "takes one to know one" line of thought. If that isn't trying to defend the guy, then why else would you post it?

Because Liberals should be really really good at knowing what a thief is?

They have been good at it themselves in very recent times afterall.

[Rerun]

So, with Bob declining to run in the Liberal leadership race, the front runner now appears to be Justin Trudeau.

Apparently Warren Kinsella (long time Liberal Party executive member and columnist for the Toronto Sun) thinks that Justin is just the man for the job...

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/16...ng-reasons-why

10 Reasons Why Justin Trudeau Is A Winner.


1. He’s got more name recognition than any of the other Liberal leadership aspirants put together.

2. He’s the only likely leadership candidate with a proven appeal to young people, women and new Canadians — the demographic trifecta that helped make the Liberal party what it once was, the most successful political machine in western democracy.

3. He isn’t an old fart.

4. He’s got more charisma than the royal family and Lady Gaga combined.

5. He’s like his dad: He only ever makes a move when he knows he will win.

6. He’s got regional appeal.

7. He’s effortlessly bilingual and thoroughly multicultural.

8. He’s a fundraising rock star, and arguably the biggest draw in Canadian politics.

9. He knows that progressives need to get their act together.

10. He’s got great hair.

If you want to read a further explanation of Warren's resoning, you'll have to read the newspaper article

[Slava]

Love the new thread title.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Slava

Love the new thread title.

I would have changed it to something like "Can Justin Trudeau save the Liberal Party? " .... but that would be too different from the original title... so I left the original title as is and substituted Justin's name for Bob's

I suspect their will be some interesting debate about Justin in the upcoming months, and certainly he'll be more prominent in the paliamentary spotlight now.

Not quite sure if Justin, as party leader, would be good for the Liberal party or good for the Conservatives and NDP.

[GP_Matt]

I don't follow federal politics too closely so I don't know how Justin stands on issues and such but my gut reaction with him is that his biggest accomplishment is being his father's son. He may well be a great politician but I have always felt strongly about nepotism in the workplace and don't think it belongs in politics either.
That said, my riding hasn't had a legitimate Liberal candidate that I can recall so my opinion of the Liberal party likely doesn't matter. The Liberal candidate took in a solid 3% in the last federal election so they would really have to turn things around before I would consider them locally.

[Smartcar]

I think Justin would do a good job of engaging young people and that counts for a lot. The voter turnout among people under 25 is pathetic. He's engaging, seems to have strong principles and is a really good speaker - he gives a rousing 20 minute speech without notes. I don't know if he'll run, but if he did I think he would do really well.

[killer_carlson]

Didn't Justin say he would separate Quebec recently? Or that he would under certain circumstances?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Didn't Justin say he would separate Quebec recently? Or that he would under certain circumstances?

I don't know about his policy thoughts or anything specific, but he is as federalist as his father, so I would doubt he would be advocating anything like that.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

That said, my riding hasn't had a legitimate Liberal candidate that I can recall so my opinion of the Liberal party likely doesn't matter. The Liberal candidate took in a solid 3% in the last federal election so they would really have to turn things around before I would consider them locally.

To play devil's advocate here, maybe if you (and your neighbours obviously, but you can only control yourself) considered them more locally, they would garner more than 3% next election?

[GP_Matt]

There is a chicken and egg problem going on now though.
They run terrible candidates and no one votes for them. Because they get no votes quality candidates do not run.

In the provincial election our Liberal candidate had never even been to the city she was running in and decided not to bother checking it out during the election period. She didn't put up a single sign, never attended a debate and didn't even bother sending her picture, website or email address to the Liberal party website.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

There is a chicken and egg problem going on now though.
They run terrible candidates and no one votes for them. Because they get no votes quality candidates do not run.

In the provincial election our Liberal candidate had never even been to the city she was running in and decided not to bother checking it out during the election period. She didn't put up a single sign, never attended a debate and didn't even bother sending her picture, website or email address to the Liberal party website.

Sounds like one or two NDP candidates in Quebec during the last election.. and they got elected. There is always hope for a miracle I guess.

Besides, do most people really vote for a candidate because he or she is the best candidate running? Or do they vote for the party and the leader? And since in most cases they can't vote for the leader since he isn't their riding candidate... they vote for the candidate that belongs to the same party.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Didn't Justin say he would separate Quebec recently? Or that he would under certain circumstances?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/02...n_1276979.html

Trudeau started the controversy with similar comments during a weekend radio interview with Radio-Canada.
"I always say that if I ever believed Canada was really the Canada of Stephen Harper and we were going against abortion and going against gay marriage, and we were going backward in 10,000 different ways, maybe I'd think of wanting to make Quebec a country,'' he said Sunday.

Trudeau later told CBC's Power and Politics he had been trying to issue a wake up call to Canadians, about how millions of Quebecers do not recognize themselves in the values promoted by the Harper government.
But he then muddied the waters further by repeating that he might favour the separation of Quebec should Harper succeed in imposing his values on Canada.

"Then I have to say, well, do I then change my values and agree with him or do I say, well, maybe there isn't room for me in this country anymore? These are honest, difficult reflections."

Trudeau went on to say "the separatist option is not the bogeyman it used to be. You ask me who the bogeyman is, it's the one sitting in our prime minister's chair right now."

I wonder what Justin's plans are now that Harper has imposed his values on Canada through Bill C-38?