"Tough to Swallow" ~ Alberta Seniors

[Sr. Mints]

nm

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I don't know what pathetic society you want to live in, but it's not the one you grew up in, and most of us with a conscience don't want to live in one that provides the old, sick, and infirm with the bare minimum for survival.

And we're not talking about "have nots". These are regular people who worked for decades, paying for you to go to school and all that cool stuff you got for free when you were a kid. That includes the food you still bitch about in the university they paid for.

Unless, of course, you are currently saving for retirement and paying back every nickel those people gave you for your education.

Are you doing that? If so, then you definitely have a point. If you aren't, you don't.

Um, but I'm not. Thats the difference.

The world I want to live in... is a socialist society where basic needs are provided, and anything extra is either donated/volunteered. FTR, I volunteered at a hospital for a few years in high school and I eat the bland food there via the meal stub given for x number of hours volunteered. It was fine. NOTE: I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT IT. I also did meals on wheels, the food probably got worse, but I can say for sure thats better than I have ever eaten consistently in my life. Again, not complaining, cause I don't feel I am entitled to good food.

Also... not sure why you need to know, but yes I am saving for retirement (maxed IRA/401k and do some personal investing) and I did not take out a student loan. I also paid Canadian taxes ontop of USA taxes for a bit due to my student visa the past few years, for services I did not use. I did not complain about it, nor am I complaining about it now.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Deleted.

[CaramonLS]

So a member of Gen ME decides that these conditions to seniors are completely unacceptable and gets on his soapbox to post about it. This after probably voting against initiatives and governments who would have provided stronger elder care and social services, and likely voted against raising taxes while he was working... just as he is getting ready to retire and about 5-10 years away from the home.

Yet he calls others selfish.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

So a member of Gen ME decides that these conditions to seniors are completely unacceptable and gets on his soapbox to post about it. This after probably voting against initiatives and governments who would have provided stronger elder care and social services, and likely voted against raising taxes while he was working... just as he is getting ready to retire and about 5-10 years away from the home.

Yet he calls others selfish.

Wait, someone who is going to retire in 5-10 years can't complain about the treatment of seniors without being called selfish? I really don't get that logic, nor do I understand how it could possibly invalidate his argument.

Is it suddenly more valid coming from a 30 year old?

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

There is nothing that Wildrose refuses to politicise is there?

I hope the above was written as some sort of joke.

The people who produce this are about as polar opposite from Wildrose as you can get.

AUPE

http://www.yourworkingpeople.com/

[Senator Clay Davis]

Obviously the most important question being overlooked here is....are these seniors able to access as many sides of ranch as they require? Cause some people need like 4 sides of ranch otherwise its just the single worst service in the history human kind.

[Thunderball]

Another thing people forget in regard to food prepared in hospitals/facilities is that it is supposed to be (according to RNs I know) very low sodium for obvious reasons. Which is probably why blandness is a common complaint.

[para transit fellow]

I will throw in another complication to this discussion ( if it hasn't been discussed already)

Our sense of taste changes as we age.

We lose the ability to appreciate subtle flavours and food becomes more "bland" to the palate as we age (ever notice how many seniors love sour candies?)

So it may be possible that something that tastes flaveorful to a 30 year in the kitchen is flavourless to the 97 year old in the dinning room.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Another thing people forget in regard to food prepared in hospitals/facilities is that it is supposed to be (according to RNs I know) very low sodium for obvious reasons. Which is probably why blandness is a common complaint.

I've been on a sodium reduced diet for 3 years now. There are lots of "no salt" spices to enhance food. I'm not married to a chef, but he got pretty darn creative in the kitchen when we had to eliminate sodium....

And fresh veggies don't need anything if they are indeed "fresh".

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

I will throw in another complication to this discussion ( if it hasn't been discussed already)

Our sense of taste changes as we age.

We lose the ability to appreciate subtle flavours and food becomes more "bland" to the palate as we age (ever notice how many seniors love sour candies?)

So it may be possible that something that tastes flaveorful to a 30 year in the kitchen is flavourless to the 97 year old in the dinning room.

Well John Gilchrist (Calgary food writer) also points out it doesn't even have an aroma. Or do seniors lose their sense of smell too?

Here is more from John on this topic at Alberta Primetime.

http://www.albertaprimetime.com/Stories.aspx?pd=3829

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by First Lady

I've been on a sodium reduced diet for 3 years now. There are lots of "no salt" spices to enhance food. I'm not married to a chef, but he got pretty darn creative in the kitchen when we had to eliminate sodium....

And fresh veggies don't need anything if they are indeed "fresh".

Sure, there are plenty of low-salt spices out there (but how many can be reconciled with a medically approved diet? I don't know), and maybe the union cooks could put more effort into their cooking en masse if they are so aghast with the outcomes, but you're still not making the point of a lack of nutrition and thats the real concern. If that can be proven, then there's a serious problem that needs to be immediately addressed. So far, no one has proven that.

Should the seniors in public long term care have first rate food? Ideally, absolutely. Just like students should have free tuition, there should be no school fees, all low income earners should have cheap transit passes like seniors, everyone should have free dentistry and eye care, and classrooms should only have 15 students per teacher.

Reality is, there simply isn't enough money for any of that. While the PCs have not been stellar accountants, there are just too many economic and social issues to overcome and even the WRA can't do any better so long as they have to deal with the AUPE, not cannibalize a different government program or keep from raising taxes. I don't think there is the will or political charisma to bring in European style healthcare, and with that, there's still no guarantee of improved delivery of food services.

This is where family and friends should be more pro-active, rather than the case I hear of from RNs I know, where a family dumps Grandma into a home, see her once a month, and gripe that the nurse only came by once during their visit and the food sucks. Speaking from a lot of experience and second hand knowledge, it is incumbent upon families and friends to augment the experience of the elderly in these facilities, and not sit back and expect someone else to do it for free. Long term health and wellness outcomes are simply much better when the families are involved.

I personally find the AUPE's complaints to be dubious and disingenuous, since they are both the cooks and a major cost driver in service delivery. For example, a 0.4 shift (18hr/wk) is considered full time with benefits for nurses.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Well John Gilchrist (Calgary food writer) also points out it doesn't even have an aroma. Or do seniors lose their sense of smell too?

Here is more from John on this topic at Alberta Primetime.

http://www.albertaprimetime.com/Stories.aspx?pd=3829

Smell is another sense that deteriorates with age. 20 - 35% of seniors apparently lose their sense of smell... and smell is a key part of the emjoyment of food.

I know families that took in an elderly relative and were exasperated by the senior's complaints about dinner... Until I mentioned the change in taste/ smell. Similarly, I have heard seniors complain about the daughter's cooking until i gently tell them that not only has their vision been changing but the senses that enjoy our food have changed. (one lady thought her daughter was intentionally making the food awful until i pointed this out).

I point out the changes related to aging because i think the problem is more complicated than just dropping the cheap re-thermalized food. This odourless re-thermalized mass-cooked stuff has been on the markets for decades, but even Calgary places with on-site kitchens have been known to be on leading edge of food taste complaints.

Cooking the food locally will probably help, getting someone who can cook for the senior palate would also probably help.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Sure, there are plenty of low-salt spices out there (but how many can be reconciled with a medically approved diet? I don't know), and maybe the union cooks could put more effort into their cooking en masse if they are so aghast with the outcomes, but you're still not making the point of a lack of nutrition and thats the real concern. If that can be proven, then there's a serious problem that needs to be immediately addressed. So far, no one has proven that.

Should the seniors in free public long term care have first rate food? Ideally, absolutely. Just like students should have free tuition, there should be no school fees, all low income earners should have cheap transit passes like seniors, everyone should have free dentistry and eye care, and classrooms should only have 15 students per teacher.

Reality is, there simply isn't enough money for any of that. While the PCs have not been stellar accountants, there are just too many economic and social issues to overcome and even the WRA can't do any better so long as they have to deal with the AUPE, not cannibalize a different government program or keep from raising taxes. I don't think there is the will or political charisma to bring in European style healthcare, and with that, there's still no guarantee of improved delivery of food services.

This is where family and friends should be more pro-active, rather than the case I hear of from RNs I know, where a family dumps Grandma into a home, see her once a month, and gripe that the nurse only came by once during their visit and the food sucks. Speaking from a lot of experience and second hand knowledge, it is incumbent upon families and friends to augment the experience of the elderly in these facilities, and not sit back and expect someone else to do it for free. Long term health and wellness outcomes are simply much better when the families are involved.

I personally find the AUPE's complaints to be dubious and disingenuous, since they are both the cooks and a major cost driver in service delivery. For example, a 0.4 shift (18hr/wk) is considered full time with benefits for nurses.

How are seniors getting free public long tern care? Would love to know as I've never heard such a thing.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Dion

How are seniors getting free public long tern care? Would love to know as I've never heard such a thing.

That would be a typo, my mistake. Should say public long term care to differentiate from private care which is substantially more expensive.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

That would be a typo, my mistake. Should say public long term care to differentiate from private care which is substantially more expensive.

That makes sense now. Thanks for the explanation

[Smartcar]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Well John Gilchrist (Calgary food writer) also points out it doesn't even have an aroma.

John Gilchrist has no credibility IMO. Only in Calgary could a restaurant critic allow his (very distinctive) face to be plastered all over his printed columns and the internet and still be considered reliable (do you really think you get the same service as he does?). The poor saps that rely on his opinions deserve what they get. Reputable restaurant critics take care to ensure they aren't recognized.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Smartcar

John Gilchrist has no credibility IMO. Only in Calgary could a restaurant critic allow his (very distinctive) face to be plastered all over his printed columns and the internet and still be considered reliable (do you really think you get the same service as he does?). The poor saps that rely on his opinions deserve what they get. Reputable restaurant critics take care to ensure they aren't recognized.

Thats one of the dumbest things I've heard. You don't think restaurant owners and managers in New York City know exactly who the New York Times restaurant critic is and what he looks like? And New York is a hundred times bigger than little old Calgary.

[Smartcar]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Thats one of the dumbest things I've heard. You don't think restaurant owners and managers in New York City know exactly who the New York Times restaurant critic is and what he looks like? And New York is a hundred times bigger than little old Calgary.

Didn't say it to hijack this thread but since you mention it, yes they likely do, but not because the NY Times prints their very distinctive mug with their columns. Not to mention videos like the one initially posted. They "try" to be anonymous, so that their experiences and opinions are more relevant to what the average diner can expect.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Thats one of the dumbest things I've heard. You don't think restaurant owners and managers in New York City know exactly who the New York Times restaurant critic is and what he looks like? And New York is a hundred times bigger than little old Calgary.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Smartcar

Didn't say it to hijack this thread but since you mention it, yes they likely do, but not because the NY Times prints their very distinctive mug with their columns. Not to mention videos like the one initially posted. They "try" to be anonymous, so that their experiences and opinions are more relevant to what the average diner can expect.

So basically you're emplying that the average joe/ unwashed masses are served one type of food while restaurant critics get the good stuff (I assume they keep it in the back) thus the need for restaurant critic annomymity, thereby not allowing the restaurant to hoodwink said critic by serving him the good stuff and all the time he thinks that this is what EVERYONE gets to eat.
.... hmmm... those sneaky little buggers. Who knew?

Well thats it! Next time I go out to a restaurant I'm going to DEMAND I be served the good stuff that they save for restaurant critics, like Mr Gilchrist.