Texas dad beats 4-year-old daughter's alleged attacker to death

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Forever Flames

The emotional and mental trauma that can follow a person around for the rest of their lives after being molested, even potentially turning them into an offender themselves, is much worse than a quick death. Torment for a lifetime is down right evil.

Nah, photon knows some people that were molested and apparently it's just "icky". She'll be fine.

[GGG]

I think it is important that due process is followed and a grad jury hears the evidence. If the facts in the article are true then I don't think what he did was a crime unless after knocking the guy out and ending the situation he contiunued to attack him. I would even let him have a few extra shots because of his emotional state.

I disagree that this is vigilante justice though. In my opinion it is a self defense case as defined by texas law. Vigilante justice would be he sees this person molest his daughter, the pedo takes off, and then the dad goes and hunts him down. That would be a crime but based on the article I would say self defense / in the defense of others.

No Charges.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Imported_Aussie

Being witness to something that traumatic would cause "temporary insanity" - that would be the way to acknowledge the action he took was wrong - you cannot take the law into your own hands, but also acknowledging that such an event would cause a normal person to lose control of their emotions.

Contrary to popular belief, that's not how the insanity defense works. Killing someone after "losing control of your emotions" is not temporary insanity. For example, imagine a case where a man came home early from work and found his wife in bed with his brother. If he shoots them both in a fit of rage, that's second degree murder.

[saskflames69]

I would give that father the lightest punishment possible, if anything. Who knows how many other children that scumbag molested or could have eventually?

[photon]

Originally Posted by zuluking

Nah, photon knows some people that were molested and apparently it's just "icky". She'll be fine.

That's clearly not what I was saying at all.

Don't be an ass, if you can't participate maturely in a thread then stay the hell away from it.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by saskflames96

I would give that father the lightest punishment possible, if anything. Who knows how many other children that scumbag molested or could have eventually?

Give him some community service and maybe some anger managment classes and call it a day. The guy did what most fathers would do, or wany to do, in that situation.

I'll donate some money to his appeal if he actually gets anything more than a day in jail.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by photon

In general I would never condone killing in self defense, and while I don't know exactly what I'd do in that exact situation, I do know a couple of people that were molested as kids and their view on it leans more towards "icky" rather than "it's ruined my life", and they seem pretty well balanced and successful adults capable of relationships, so I don't know if I'd have a killing rage because of it.

Perfectly reasonable response based on your experience with people who have been abused. Though mine would be the polar opposite I guess. My wife used to work at the Gordon Townsend School as a Nurse on the Child Psych Unit and some of the stories of abuse these kids suffered from their abusers are horrifying. Lifetime emotional and mental scars not to mention girls whose reproductive organs are ruined - boys with intestinal damage. Just hearing those stories made my blood boil - I can't imagine catching someone in the act with my child.

[Gozer]

He beat a man to death. He should be charged with a crime. If the sentiments of CP are any barometer, he'll be found not guilty.

If we're basing legal precedent on personal palateability then there's a lot of unjust sentences being served.

I won't say that I wouldn't have killed the guy if I saw it happen, but that doesn't mean I didn't commit a crime.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Contrary to popular belief, that's not how the insanity defense works. Killing someone after "losing control of your emotions" is not temporary insanity. For example, imagine a case where a man came home early from work and found his wife in bed with his brother. If he shoots them both in a fit of rage, that's second degree murder.

Actually that's the classic example used for common law manslaughter. Where it falls in any jurisdiction today would vary, but the 'fit of rage' type situation often removes a homicide from the murder realm and places it into the manslaughter realm as there is considered to be provocation.

[Jason14h]

Actually that's the classic example used for common law manslaughter. Where it falls in any jurisdiction today would vary, but the 'fit of rage' type situation often removes a homicide from the murder realm and places it into the manslaughter realm as there is considered to be provocation.

Usually that's the plead down charge though

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by photon

That's clearly not what I was saying at all.

Don't be an ass, if you can't participate maturely in a thread then stay the hell away from it.

So what were you saying? It looked to me like you were assessing the father's reaction through your own narrow view that people who have been molested generally end up leading well-balanced lives. Aren't you saying that you would likely not be as enraged due to this anecdotal expectation? That all the clinical evidence and broader exposure (like Coys) pretty much points to a significantly different outcome than the one you've described? Thank goodness your acquaintances have addressed this in their own lives, but to extrapolate that to others and use it as your gauge of enragement is pretty pathetic.

Plus you're hypersensitive.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by zuluking

It looked to me like you were assessing the father's reaction through your own narrow view that people who have been molested generally end up leading well-balanced lives. Aren't you saying that you would likely not be as enraged due to this anecdotal expectation?

I think he meant that people are better off being molested.
I'm sure any fair-minded observer would agree with either of us.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by photon

You're in the minority for sure, most people think torches and pitchforks are the answer.



I agree, they have an attraction that just happens to be harmful to who they're attracted to, so worst case is just helping them with self control. Someday maybe we can re-program their brains or something, but as far as I know there's no cure now.

Torches and pitchforks are still the answer even considering the attraction element. Remove the childhood attraction component of the story and replace the 4 year old daughter with an 18 year old daughter - It still calls for torches and pitchforks! Rapists of whatever stripe deserve the harshest punishment.

[photon]

Originally Posted by zuluking

So what were you saying? It looked to me like you were assessing the father's reaction through your own narrow view that people who have been molested generally end up leading well-balanced lives.

No, I said I didn't know if I'd have a killing rage because my emotions would be based on my personal experiences and people that I knew.

I didn't make any comment about the father's reactions, I wasn't assessing the father's reactions, and I didn't make any generalization at all regarding people who've been molested.

I clearly only spoke about my reactions and my personal experience, you posted without actually reading what I wrote.

Coys1882 obviously did and understood what I was saying and didn't read what they wanted into what I posted.

Originally Posted by zuluking

Aren't you saying that you would likely not be as enraged due to this anecdotal expectation?

I was saying that I would likely not be as enraged based on my past experiences. If I'd had the experience that Coys1882 had I'd probably feel differently.

I don't know what an anecdotal expectation is.

Originally Posted by zuluking

That all the clinical evidence and broader exposure (like Coys) pretty much points to a significantly different outcome than the one you've described?

Good thing I didn't say any different then.

Originally Posted by zuluking

Thank goodness your acquaintances have addressed this in their own lives, but to extrapolate that to others and use it as your gauge of enragement is pretty pathetic.

Good thing I didn't extrapolate anything to others then, you're the one putting words into my mouth.

Originally Posted by zuluking

Plus you're hypersensitive.

No, claimed I was saying something I wasn't, which in itself is at best sloppy and at worst dishonest.. but to do it to make it look like I was saying child molestation is just icky, to do it over such a serious subject matter.. well lets just say if I'm going to accuse someone of having such a view I'd make damn sure I was right about what they said. Which you didn't, and since others understood fine, the fault would be yours.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by valo403

Actually that's the classic example used for common law manslaughter. Where it falls in any jurisdiction today would vary, but the 'fit of rage' type situation often removes a homicide from the murder realm and places it into the manslaughter realm as there is considered to be provocation.

My mistake.

Either way, it's not "temporary insanity", though.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Torches and pitchforks are still the answer even considering the attraction element. Remove the childhood attraction component of the story and replace the 4 year old daughter with an 18 year old daughter - It still calls for torches and pitchforks! Rapists of whatever stripe deserve the harshest punishment.

That's true, I meant that the solution to the attraction itself seems to be torches and pitchforks. Someone could be a pedophile that's never once offended and never would, but simply admitting it to someone else would probably destroy their lives. People have their lives destroyed even over false accusations.

I agree though, anyone who acts out on their attraction to children, or acts out on their violent fantasies on other adults, needs to be dealt with to the full extent of the law, and hopefully someday such people can be really helped.

[Radio]

Even if he is charged no jury would convict him.

Catching the guy in the act, I could see almost any father flying into a blind rage and ending that mother####er!

[MarchHare]

Even if he is charged no jury would convict him.

People keep saying this like it's a fait accompli, but I'm not so sure. If the DA decides to charge him, it appears as though the state has a very strong case. There's no question that he killed the molester. The defense would have to show that the use of lethal force was necessary to end the immediate action of sexual abuse, and that seems like a tough sell to me.

The fact that there existed strong mitigating factors shouldn't influence the guilty/not-guilty decision that the jury delivers, but it absolutely would influence the sentence the judge chooses to impose.

I'd be very surprised if this goes to trial, though. The most likely outcome will be a guilty plea in exchange for the most lenient sentence the state can offer.

[Radio]

He'd only need 1 sympathetic juror...I am sure a half decent lawyer could find a couple of dads for the jury.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

People keep saying this like it's a fait accompli, but I'm not so sure. If the DA decides to charge him, it appears as though the state has a very strong case. There's no question that he killed the molester. The defense would have to show that the use of lethal force was necessary to end the immediate action of sexual abuse, and that seems like a tough sell to me.

The fact that there existed strong mitigating factors shouldn't influence the guilty/not-guilty decision that the jury delivers, but it absolutely would influence the sentence the judge chooses to impose.

I'd be very surprised if this goes to trial, though. The most likely outcome will be a guilty plea in exchange for the most lenient sentence the state can offer.

tussery previously posted "or (B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery."

So "prevent" and "imminent" give it a different light.

His post here: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...4&postcount=54