You should. Your beliefs on the subject are only applicable to yourself. Money is one of the hardest things to call people out on and how they use it.
Maybe Joe diamond buyer really loves the idea of a nice diamond ring. Have you ever taken a vacation in your life? Some people might think that's an atrocious expense. Regardless if you drive 10km to a campground or 10,000 or fly across the world. When you could just as easily and for free, relax on your couch.
Some people believe children are a complete waste of money. Or dogs
You're not right or wrong.
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You are the only one drawing that comparison/straw man/false equivalency, but I'll bite anyway.
A $30,000 car typically has a legitimate, ~$30,000 value when broken down to the sum of its parts plus labour. A piece of shiny rock for $8000 does not. It's value is arbitrarily made by the people who sell it to you at an insane mark up. It's a scam. They have totally over inflated its value to the maximum point they think you'll pay without consciously cluing into the fact that they're bending you over and laughing at you while they do it.
Not to mention people that recognize the poor value in an $8000 ring would also look for better value in buying a car at a used-price sweet spot in terms of mileage, age, wear and tear, etc., which brings me back to my original point that your argument is a straw man.
You are arguing utility.
While it may be a perceived utility that makes girls feel better with a bigger diamond, its still utility, if it makes them happy enough to spend 6K, then so be it. You cannot argue against the laws of economics.
You should. Your beliefs on the subject are only applicable to yourself. Money is one of the hardest things to call people out on and how they use it.
Maybe Joe diamond buyer really loves the idea of a nice diamond ring. Have you ever taken a vacation in your life? Some people might think that's an atrocious expense. Regardless if you drive 10km to a campground or 10,000 or fly across the world. When you could just as easily and for free, relax on your couch.
Some people believe children are a complete waste of money. Or dogs
You're not right or wrong.
I'm definitely right that this guy can't follow a logical argument. I was giving up arguing with somebody that doesn't know how to argue. Without any doubt my point is correct that there is no value in a diamond apart from that which a businessman and his marketing team has ascribed to it. No logical argument can be made in defense of an over-priced diamond making financial sense.
If somebody can afford $10K on a ring (most young people can't), I've said go for it. If you can't afford it it's pretty much the last thing that should be on your list. A ring is one of the first steps in bringing a loving relationship into a financial partnership (as one major component of a marriage). Starting off with a large debt, or even if purchased with cash at the expense of a house, RRSPs, etc., then you have made a poor decision. If you don't like that, you don't like facts. That's not an opinion.
+1 for tungsten, it's also durable as hell. My wedding band still looks brand new over a year later. Plus depending on the edge on your ring you can use a tungsten band to pry open a beer bottle. Good party trick.
If you are any sort of labour person I would avoid these types of metals...as they cannot be cut like a traditional ring from gold/alloy.
I bought my wife's (is that the correct use of the apostrophe??) ring at Troy Shoppe. We also got our wedding bands there and I have made a few more purchases as well for misc presents. The service is fantastic and the selection is great.
While it may be a perceived utility that makes girls feel better with a bigger diamond, its still utility, if it makes them happy enough to spend 6K, then so be it. You cannot argue against the laws of economics.
Here's a $1300 HDMI cable (no coincidence it's called "diamond HDMI cable" lol). Somebody will buy it, I'm sure. Is that a good idea? It's just an over-marketed gimmick worth a fraction of what is being charged. You seriously don't think an argument can be made that it is a stupid purchase?
Just because lots of people buy overpriced diamonds doesn't mean it isn't stupid. It is.
Last edited by Sliver; 06-07-2012 at 08:58 AM.
Reason: sp
You should. Your beliefs on the subject are only applicable to yourself. Money is one of the hardest things to call people out on and how they use it.
One more thing here. Money is not hard at all to call people out on up to a point. In our society, there are some givens that you need to spend your money on (house, insurance, RRSPs, vehicle, food, clothing, taxes, utilities, etc.). After your fundamentals are taken care of, it becomes way more subjective as to what is a good use of funds, and what is a bad use of funds. I get from your post that you're saying everybody's use of money is up to them and shouldn't be judged. In fact, there are good ways to spend limited funds/access to debt and bad ways.
If we assume the OP is a younger guy on his first marriage coming from an average Calgary home (i.e. he's not rich), then the correct guidance to give would be to make sure his bases are covered before spending $10K on a ring. I think it's reasonable to say the ring should be way less than 1% of your net worth. If, for instance, he doesn't own his home and doesn't have a reasonable amount of money in RRSPs, then this ring would comprise way too high a proportion of either his net worth/debt. I knew people when I was in my 20s who the most expensive thing they owned was a wedding ring and they rented a basement suite.
Getting married typically means kids are on the way within a decade (from what I've seen, anyway). They are expensive and financial planning for them should start in the pre-planning stages of a marriage. It's the same reason why blowing your wad on a fancy wedding is a bad idea if the other, more important financial responsibilities, aren't taken care of.
If you're rich or come from money, buy your fancy ring. It doesn't make it a smart use of money, but it is affordable and that's the most important thing.
Something that can make a big difference is when you get engaged. I was engaged a few months out of university and had very little money so in those circumstances 10K would have been crippling. The down payment on our first home was only slightly more than 10K. If you get engaged in your thirties when you are well established in your career then 10K doesn't seem like all that much money.
For those that think it is stupid I wonder how many have granite counter tops in their kitchen? Can you really argue that granite counter tops provide more benefit than Corian tops? Sure, frozen foods thaw quicker on granite and you will likely recover some of the money when you sell but I don't think adding granite increases the resale of the house by the same amount. The same goes for picking hardwood over engineered hardwood, or choosing a stamped driveway.
In the end, everyone spends a different amount on just about everything based on the means and wants. We can't agree that there is a normal price that one should pay for a house above which the purchaser is wasting his money and we can't agree on a standard price for rings. Who would want to anyway?
I am sure we can put together a group of people who think that $500 is the tops that someone should spend on a ring above which you are really just getting the same thing (a wife) but paying more for it.
Wait, I thought you just said if you can afford, then "whatever". But now it's stupid.
I did. An overpriced ring is not a good purchase. There are two separate issues here. The first is the fact that the retail price of a diamond wedding ring is artificially inflated by diamond producers and marketers for gigantic profit margins. That makes buying one stupid no matter how much money you have.
The second issue is affordability. A lot of people are duped into buying these over-priced trinkets that can't afford them. That's really stupid.
If you are wealthy and can afford an overpriced ring, then by all means it's your right to spend your money poorly if you wish. If you are not wealthy and cannot afford to buy an expensive ring, then under no circumstances should you do so.
I don't have a problem with people spending whatever they want on a ring (although I personally would never spend $6-10k on a ring). I have a problem with the price of a ring being equated with how much someone loves someone else. The price of the ring should have nothing to do with it. A ring is nothing more than a symbol really, so it being a $10,000 symbol shouldn't make it mean more than a $2,000 symbol.
__________________
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I did. An overpriced ring is not a good purchase. There are two separate issues here. The first is the fact that the retail price of a diamond wedding ring is artificially inflated by diamond producers and marketers for gigantic profit margins. That makes buying one stupid no matter how much money you have.
The second issue is affordability. A lot of people are duped into buying these over-priced trinkets that can't afford them. That's really stupid.
If you are wealthy and can afford an overpriced ring, then by all means it's your right to spend your money poorly if you wish. If you are not wealthy and cannot afford to buy an expensive ring, then under no circumstances should you do so.
I would like to know your thoughts on Weddings and wedding photographers as well.
I'm asking this seriously, because I think wedding photographers are way overpriced. But I still had to get it done for my wedding. I had to get it done because it was what my wife wanted and it made her happy to have high quality photos.
Same with the wedding, instant markup for everything when you say "wedding" and append it to a word. Same thing here, I shook my head in sadness and disgust at some of the costs, but I had to get it done because my wife wanted it and it made her happy.
The engagement ring, I wanted to purchase for her. I spent within my means, and looked for the best deal for the diamond that I wanted. She was ecstatic with the ring.
Do I think any of these things were a poor way of spending money? No, because it was something that we could afford and it made her happy.
I congratulate all the lucky husbands that have wives that have different priorities that enable them to not spend money on "poor" purchases. Unfortunately or fortunately, my wife is not wired that way.
I agree with you that spending beyond your means for luxuries is incredibly stupid, but I don't agree with you saying all luxury purchases is a "poor" purchase even if you can afford it.
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I would like to know your thoughts on Weddings and wedding photographers as well.
I'm asking this seriously, because I think wedding photographers are way overpriced. But I still had to get it done for my wedding. I had to get it done because it was what my wife wanted and it made her happy to have high quality photos.
Same with the wedding, instant markup for everything when you say "wedding" and append it to a word. Same thing here, I shook my head in sadness and disgust at some of the costs, but I had to get it done because my wife wanted it and it made her happy.
The engagement ring, I wanted to purchase for her. I spent within my means, and looked for the best deal for the diamond that I wanted. She was ecstatic with the ring.
Do I think any of these things were a poor way of spending money? No, because it was something that we could afford and it made her happy.
I congratulate all the lucky husbands that have wives that have different priorities that enable them to not spend money on "poor" purchases. Unfortunately or fortunately, my wife is not wired that way.
Here's what I said about wedding photographers in a previous thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliver
Meh, people are throwing money down the toilet when a wedding photography bill gets up into the thousands. Really, only one or two photos will ever be appropriate on your walls - especially as the years pass and photos of kids' milestones, vacations and other memories become as important as your wedding and need real estate on your walls and in your home.
Besides, nobody wants to see your wedding book of hundreds of photos of you and your wedding party in silly poses in front of dilapidated barns, in grassy fields or in black and white smoking cigars trying too hard to look cool. Personally, I'm a fan of more classic wedding photos from the previous 100 years than this latest trend in the past five or so years of having paparazzi capture every second of the day in an avalanche of 2000 photos.
Having said that, I'll say what I always say with weddings and fancy cars - if you're out of debt, caught up on your savings and have the money to spend on these "life extras," go nuts. This isn't something you should be going into debt for - young people have too many expenses in their 20s and 30s to bog themselves down with debt from a wedding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomber317
I agree with you that spending beyond your means for luxuries is incredibly stupid, but I don't agree with you saying all luxury purchases is a "poor" purchase even if you can afford it.
Fair enough. I've probably gotten a little carried away. If you're spending within your means there are lots of stupid things to buy that are really fun.
Same with the wedding, instant markup for everything when you say "wedding" and append it to a word. Same thing here, I shook my head in sadness and disgust at some of the costs, but I had to get it done because my wife wanted it and it made her happy.
Spending a lot on the rock is important. It shows her that you are comitted to doing what it takes to be the man of her dreams. Because after this, it won't stop:
- Ceremony down payment
- Wedding Invitations
- Wedding dress
- DJ or Band,
- Cake,
- Photographer,
- Engagement Dinner,
- Stag and Stagette,
- Tux or Tux rental,
- Your wedding band,
- Preacher or Officiator,
- Marraige license
- Limo rental
- Table decorations
- Rest of the ceremony payment
- Bridesmaids and the Groomsmen's presents
- The wedding corsage or flower arrangement that she holds
- Preservation of the wedding dress
- Preservation of the floral arrangement
- Thank you letters
- Honey Moon
- First house down payment
- Real furniture, cuz the stuff you thought was fine isn't good enough
- Home entertainment system if your lucky
- House renovations
- Yard renovations
- Landscaping
- Oral pleasuring starts to diminish at about this stage
- Pet medical bills
- Baby ultrasound photos
- Baby shower
- Car seats
- Bassonette
- Play Pen
- Crib
- Nursery make over
- Birth Books
- Midwife
- diaper bag and all the accoutrements
- Camera for the baby shots
- Birth Announcements
- New car because your A-B fare won't cut it for the new baby
- Stroller
- Running Stroller
- One more stroller for good measure
- Breast Pump
- Exercise Equipment
- iGadgets
Add about two to four hundred thousand for each additional child to get them to 18. Then university tuition etc. With a bit of luck you'll be able to split the costs of their weddings and then repeat the above.
GOOD LUCK!
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If you're spending within your means there are lots of stupid things to buy that are really fun.
