Edmonton teacher suspended for giving zero's

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Bmuzyka

I think Cindy is going to star in The Northenders! She will make fat Ca$h for a year or two, and then retire to a life of Lucky Lager and KD

easy let's leave my fav beer out of this.....

[TorqueDog]

Miss Cindy Smith of Edmonton needs to either explain her point of view or pipe down with the whining about how the media twists her words and we're only interested in one side of the story. On the contrary, we're INVITING your side of the story.

Please, if your words were taken out of context, we're eagerly awaiting you providing the proper context so we can re-evaluate our positions. But lamenting the media spinning your words without being willing to clarify your position is useless.


Here's my take:
1. If you do absolutely nothing, you deserve absolutely nothing. This is known as a ZERO.
2. If you only partially complete an assignment but do not hand it in, your grade should be proportional to what you handed in. This is also known as a ZERO.
3. If you partially complete an assignment AND hand it in, then what amount of work was completed should be graded appropriately. A zero is NOT appropriate unless you actually get everything that you completed incorrect.


For my first six grades, I was used to coasting without any issue. Always an A+ student.

First semester of Grade 7 math was quite possibly the lowest point in my academic progress. I got a 37%. It felt like getting kicked in the groin - twice... by a pre-schooler... in front of the entire school. I told my parents, and in my short-sighted view, it was immediately apparent that this was a bad idea, because I was immediately grounded from using the computer, playing video games, etc. My parents' involvement in my studies was immediately heightened and as a result of this, my grades got back to where they needed to be and I maintained a high level of performance throughout the remainder of my school years. But it wasn't without my own effort that this turnaround happened.

What was the point of this little story? That as a student, YOU are responsible for YOUR performance. If your work is deserving of a 0%, or a 37%, a 50% or a 90%, you should get that. And not doing anything is absolutely worth a zero.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Long Story.

I think thats an important point thats being missed in all this. I've always been a coaster and I got away with it for a long time.

How, why and when did I change my ways? When I started getting really bad grades.

That '0' could be the kick in the ass that people need sometimes.

[Wormius]

Okay. Instead of giving 0%, how about 49%. That way the kids will feel like they didn't completely suck, and have their self esteem completely destroyed, but it's still considered a fail for all intents and purposes.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Okay. Instead of giving 0%, how about 49%. That way the kids will feel like they didn't completely suck, and have their self esteem completely destroyed, but it's still considered a fail for all intents and purposes.

Isn't that basically what this system and argument is about?

Besides, if you're using that grade as part of a larger grade it just brings up your average for doing nothing.

[Rubicant]

I am a teacher - there absolutely needs to be zeros for work that is not handed in. I would further say that late marks should be deducted for anything handed in after the deadline. In terms of tests - students can miss one test per semester in my class and write it the next day provided they bring in a parental note explaining the absence. The next test missed requires a doctors note. After that, I pretty much need to see a death certificate to explain the absence.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Okay. Instead of giving 0%, how about 49%. That way the kids will feel like they didn't completely suck, and have their self esteem completely destroyed, but it's still considered a fail for all intents and purposes.

You're still getting something for nothing.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Okay. Instead of giving 0%, how about 49%. That way the kids will feel like they didn't completely suck, and have their self esteem completely destroyed, but it's still considered a fail for all intents and purposes.

So the kid who spent all weekend playing video games and eating Doritos should get the same grade as the kid who really tries but struggles with their work, hands everything in, and only gets 49%?

I mean, tell me why someone who does nothing should get any sense of accomplishment out of it? This is along the same line of thinking as "You're all special, you lost, here have a trophy anyway". Why is it important to reward failure? Why are we not approaching failure as "you failed, and that's okay, because failure is a part of life. Take this experience and build off of it. Work harder and you'll go farther".

Sorry, but the kids themselves even said that "showing up" is deserving of something, and in the context of effort, the kid who did nothing didn't "show up". The kids I'm sure didn't mean it that way, of course.

The real world rewards those who not only "show up" but give it their all. If you want to prepare children for a world that doesn't exist, sure, let's pretend that 0% is really a 49% and that everyone is a beautiful snowflake, precious in every way, and that you all deserve a gold star for being able to keep a chair warm.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Springs1?

Thanks.

I never checked that topic before. She just gave my entire office a good laugh.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Okay. Instead of giving 0%, how about 49%. That way the kids will feel like they didn't completely suck, and have their self esteem completely destroyed, but it's still considered a fail for all intents and purposes.

It doesn't matter what they feel and their self esteem isn't important. Maybe if we didn't concern ourselves so much with their tender little feelings they'd learn that not handing in a assigment means that you failed in the utterly worst way.

Frankly I'd be pissed if I did a assignment and got lets say 65%, and some slack jaw troglidite didn't and got a 49%, that means that me putting in an effort means absolutely nothing.

We're handicapping these kids by patting them on the head and rewarding them for zero effort.

I had a friend who was a really smart guy, because of that in high school they did everything they could to make him feel all good and stuff. He got deadline extensions because he made excuses, teachers would bump his grades because he was a "nice" kid who needed a little push.

So he gets into university and 6 months later he's digging ditches and tending bar because he learned the harsh lesson that if you don't do your work and live up to your obligation that the actual for real world will not reward you for laziness or failure, and that that feeling running up your back are all of those people behind you that don't give a crap about your self esteem.

We're failing these kids right now.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by kirant

Thanks.

I never checked that topic before. She just gave my entire office a good laugh.

Ditto. I somehow missed that thread while it was happening, but boy am I glad I saw it here. Springs1 has to be the greatest internet troll there ever was or ever will be.

[The Yen Man]

I just don't understand what the mentality is for rewarding lack of try and lack of work. So little Johnny is too lazy to do his assignments or show up for his tests, but he should still get a mark, since he doesn't deserve a zero? Um what? He absolutely deserves a zero. Schools are places to learn. If little Johnny wants coddling, tell his parents to home school him instead.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I just don't understand what the mentality is for rewarding lack of try and lack of work. So little Johnny is too lazy to do his assignments or show up for his tests, but he should still get a mark, since he doesn't deserve a zero? Um what? He absolutely deserves a zero. Schools are places to learn. If little Johnny wants coddling, tell his parents to home school him instead.

I was just thinking what this world needs is MORE kids that are home schooled.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Ditto. I somehow missed that thread while it was happening, but boy am I glad I saw it here. Springs1 has to be the greatest internet troll there ever was or ever will be.

There should be a thread that alerts people to other epic threads. So if someone is completely losing their ****, people can post in the one thread alerting others about the action.

[Thunderball]

I can't believe this is actually an issue... it was only 10 years ago when I was in grade school, but we could get zeros in class assignments for being little pricks, let alone not submitting an assignment.

These kids are gonna love the 100% finals, course failures for ONE missed assignment, and the lack of hand holding they're gonna encounter in law school and other university degree paths should they even make it that far.

Try not submitting assignments to a boss at work and see how long you're employed... seriously... is our society so concerned with coddling youth that they choose to allow them to be completely unprepared for real life?

[dubc80]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Here's my take:
1. If you do absolutely nothing, you deserve absolutely nothing. This is known as a ZERO.
2. If you only partially complete an assignment but do not hand it in, your grade should be proportional to what you handed in. This is also known as a ZERO.
3. If you partially complete an assignment AND hand it in, then what amount of work was completed should be graded appropriately. A zero is NOT appropriate unless you actually get everything that you completed incorrect.

Summarizes my thoughts exactly.

I'd like to see someone present an argument FOR the no-zero policy though. Really curious what the rationale would be.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Springs1?

That was worth every minute!

I had to walk away from my desk after reading this.

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Who's to say? Maybe the cooks did a good job and my server was busy giving an HJ in the bathroom to the guy she's had a crush on for the last 3 months who finally told her that he thinks she's special and that she may just be the girl for him. It really helps her self esteem in the short run even though in the long run it's going to ruin her self esteem because he just used her to get himself off and now all she has for a memory is a handful of organic Jergen's, a wink and a smile. And the hole in her heart.

[FlamesFanStrandedInEDM]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Okay. Instead of giving 0%, how about 49%. That way the kids will feel like they didn't completely suck, and have their self esteem completely destroyed, but it's still considered a fail for all intents and purposes.

Missing the point. The issue is with ACCURATE Assessment. 49% is no better than a zero if it doesn't accurately assess what the student actually knows.

The "No Zero Policy" does not inflate grades....It just doesn't deflate them. If that kid goes all semester and doesn't do a lick of work. They will be taking the course again. Teachers are not handing out free grades like a new candy bar outside of a football game.

If anything, "Incompletes" can have a stronger impact on a grade than a zero can. Incomplete can = "I'm Sorry, see you next semester" a Zero can just deflate a grade but still keep it high enough to go on.

The "No Zero Policy" removes any excuses for failure.

[FlamesFanStrandedInEDM]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

A bunch have already asked, but can you explain your post?

Why are you in favor of the policy? and how do the tags have nothing to do with it? What are the advantages of not being able to receive a zero, regardless of the amount of work you do?

A Humourous Answer?
"I dont like giving zeros because the kids who would earn zeros I probably dont want to see in my class next semester?"

I sent an answer to someone who sent me a PM directly that was fairly long, and if he sees this, he has my permission to copy paste it (I deleted my outbox cause it was full)

The biggest issue with Zeros is that unfinished work is classified as a behavior problem. Teachers are responsible to mark students alongside what the curriculum expectations are. A Zero does not accurately assess what the student knows. I'm even more against the teachers who hand out zeros as a punishment for behavior "If you talk during the exam, you receive a zero" A Zero should not be used to threaten or replace your classroom management skills. Because the teacher is responsible for assessing the students knowledge of the curriculum. I said this in an earlier post, but the Social Studies curriculum states "Student will understand the causes and effects of globalization" Not that they will understand it by March 12th.

The classroom is a dynamic environment that is constantly changing. Many of you would barely recognize the classrooms today. Just because it was "this way" when you went to school 25 years ago, doesn't mean it has to be that way now. Inclusion policies are changing, assessment is changing, the technology is changing. However, I realize that I'm talking to a crowd of people who think they know how to run a team because they played hockey when they were 10, so I'm not expecting to sway many peoples opinions.

The "No Zero Policy" is not about student entitlement, it's about giving the best assessment of your children's education. What's wrong with a second chance if they didn't get it the first time? How many of you wouldn't be driving if you only got one chance to pass your drivers test when you were 16? It's not about when you understand the content, its IF you understand the content.

[Wormius]

I think though, that for the vast majority of kids, school life sucks. No need to make it even more unbearable.

You can give somebody 0%, 49%, 65% it doesn't really matter to a certain degree. As long as teachers aren't handing out 80s and 90s undeservedly, it doesn't matter. The kids that are destined for great university and academic careers will still get there, and the ones that are just sliding by, won't. I don't think it changes anything. The ones pulling in the bare minimum or slightly above aren't Harvard bound, and I am pretty sure they realize that.

That said, I hope in 100 years from now we are not living like "Idiocracy".