A Song of Ice and Fire **Spoilers** Now more TV talk!

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

ASOIAF wiki says Joffrey's was called Widow's Wail but I don't think that's what they called it in the TV show. In fact, I thought Joff gave it a different name in the books. And I just read that book last month and I can't remember. I guess I am remembering incorrectly.

They haven't introduced it in the show yet. Hearteater, the sword Sansa was forced to kiss last episode, is his newest sword (due to Arya throwing Lion's Tooth into the river). But that's just a normal steel sword.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

So did the show have the scene with someone in Renly's armour leading the charge with Stannis? Or did they cut that part? I could have seen that helping show the Tyrell's siding with the Lannister's in a more obvious way than the quick shot of Loras taking off his helmet (I'm assuming that is the scene that tells the tale).

They did, it was very subtle and extremely easy to miss though. Leading the charge of the Lannister/Tyrell forces were a bunch of horsed knights with a single white horse in the middle wearing Renly's colours. I highly doubt many if any non-readers picked up on that, but some noted that when Loras removed his helmet he was wearing Renly's armour.

There wasn't any mention of Renly's ghost, or Renly at all, though so those who noticed seem to be taking it as a sign of his devotion to Renly where as us readers got a bit of a nod.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

They did, it was very subtle and extremely easy to miss though. Leading the charge of the Lannister/Tyrell forces were a bunch of horsed knights with a single white horse in the middle wearing Renly's colours. I highly doubt many if any non-readers picked up on that, but some noted that when Loras removed his helmet he was wearing Renly's armour.

There wasn't any mention of Renly's ghost, or Renly at all, though so those who noticed seem to be taking it as a sign of his devotion to Renly where as us readers got a bit of a nod.

I think that last little sequence felt a bit rushed - it could have used just a few more minutes. Maybe a few soldiers yelling about the ghost of Renly returning for vengeance or something like that would've made it just a bit more effective.

[Tinordi]

The Renlys ghost bit in the book is inconsequential. It's actually fairly cynical as a tack on cliffhanger. That part should have been edited out our done better. I'm glad it's significance was reduced in the show.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I noticed The Robb Stark premonition was gone from Dany's scene.

Seems they'll be setting up the Littlefinger and Sansa thing early. No mystery there like in the books.

No Roose Bolton ####### yet which is interesting.

[Arbitor]

No Dany prophecy either, Halls of the Undying was kind of a letdown.

I like how they handled the sack of Winterfell. The show followers will believe that the Iron men burned it down before they left. That allows the Bolton switch during the Red Wedding to be even more of a shock as it was never shown that Ramsay destroyed Winterfell.

[FlameOn]

Great episode! especially the whole walker king and zombie army... but yea, hall of the undying was a huge letdown. Guess we won't see as much anticipation of Dany's actions

I'm guess with the show diverging a bit and that last scene it won't be Mance Ryder riding against the Watch at the wall anymore? Or could they still somehow work that in?

[Hanni]

I wasn't really a fan of how they changed Qhorin and Jon's exchange. Qhorin initiates the fight on 2 occasions so if I'm a wildling I still don't trust Jon because he's basically just defending himself. The way they do it in the book makes Jon's desertion much more believable from the wildling perspective.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Great episode! especially the whole walker king and zombie army... but yea, hall of the undying was a huge letdown. Guess we won't see as much anticipation of Dany's actions

I'm guess with the show diverging a bit and that last scene it won't be Mance Ryder riding against the Watch at the wall anymore? Or could they still somehow work that in?

That scene is pretty close to the books - other than Sam staying behind the scene is straight from the books. The Night's Watch it attacked by Others on the Fist of First Men. Then the Watch who survive retreat to Craster's Keep while being harried by Others the entire way. That is when Sam gets the "Slayer" nickname.

The only divergence is: Sam was in the camp, there was no mention of the revolt that was going to happen (no surprise there) and the Others attacked at night in the books.

Mance attacks later - he is very upset when they are marching past the Fist and he discovers a large group of the Watch had been there, which Jon failed to tell him about.


Edit: And I don't think they explained Qhorin's reason for attacking Jon very well. I can see some confusion about that.

[d_phaneuf]

hall of undying was a huge letdown

The rest of the episode was good though, I wonder if they aren't going to split Bran and Rickon

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Not a fan of the way they handled Sam. He's a coward but how the hell are they going to explain how he survives out there amidst 2k or so wights/others?

House of the Undying was ok but I can understand why it wasn't the same as the books. Thing is, except for the final scene in the HotU it would have been fairly easy to replicate. It was just her in a hallway peering through doors most of the time.

And I agree with the guy in the GoT thread. The way the dragon fire scene was a tad hokey. Could have been done better.

And I agrew with Hanni above, Jon turning was way more believable before. He killed some fellow prisoner that attacked him and now he's all good? Yeah right.

Other than a few things I thought it was fantastic though.

[Bobblehead]

I don't know why they had Maester Luwin see Osha in the crypts a couple weeks ago. I think it would have been much better to leave it like the book.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I don't know why they had Maester Luwin see Osha in the crypts a couple weeks ago. I think it would have been much better to leave it like the book.

Yeah, wouldn't that moment by the heart tree be more touching if that's when he finds out they're alive? It was totally unnecessary to bring him into their hiding.


Interesting to see how people will respond to MMF's post about what happened to Winterfell. Even I'm not sure how the show will handle it. Roose Bolton's ####### did it? The Iron Men burned it down and then got killed by Bolton's men?

In the books the group escapes the same way but we know that the ####### of Bolton has gone to ???? (I actually forget). Ramsay goes back to ???? where he tortures Theon for a while and then returns to winterfell to marry Arya later?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Yeah, wouldn't that moment by the heart tree be more touching if that's when he finds out they're alive? It was totally unnecessary to bring him into their hiding.


Interesting to see how people will respond to MMF's post about what happened to Winterfell. Even I'm not sure how the show will handle it. Roose Bolton's ####### did it? The Iron Men burned it down and then got killed by Bolton's men?

In the books the group escapes the same way but we know that the ####### of Bolton has gone to ???? (I actually forget). Ramsay goes back to ???? where he tortures Theon for a while and then returns to winterfell to marry Arya later?

I thought about saying "there was a divergence from the book but I had a good idea".

But before I posted that, I got thinking - it is actually more of a convergence with the books. In the books the Ramsay brought the Dreadfort guys, doublecrosses Ser Rodrick, then razes Winterfell. The only difference here is we didn't actually see the razing (or the doublecross of Ser Rodrick because, well, in the TV show he is already dead)

[GreenLantern]

I was really hoping to see Ramsay this episode, I should have known he wouldn't show up until next season..

The face change by Jaqen was awesome, that was one of my favourite scenes of the episode.

I didn't remember him inviting her in the book, I thought he just gave her the coin and said if you ever want to come... but I don't remember a lot so I am sure that happened.

Great finale all around, lots of stuff set up for next season well.

[worth]

I didn't want to post this in the TV show thread because I would get yelled at, but after watching two seasons, the books are far and away my preferred way of enjoying this story.

I thought Season One was a pretty strong telling of the first book, but the second season was, generally speaking, a letdown in comparison.

I suppose I need to enjoy these two mediums with a bit of seperation.

[Bobblehead]

If people are complaining about the number of characters now, wait until next season when even more are added.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

If people are complaining about the number of characters now, wait until next season when even more are added.

I laugh everytime someone posts that they are going to buy the books and then there won't be any character confusion.

Ha! They might understand the TV show characters better but there is a whole new world of constant referencing because of all the damn book characters.

[Bobblehead]

I find the books a bit different. At least there are names, on TV you need to go based on physical appearance and from one scene to the next it can be tough instantly recognize the person.

When you see, "the Hound" or "the Mountain" it is much more obvious than "is that guy mountain big, hound big or regular sized and fighting a small guy?"

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I find the books a bit different. At least there are names, on TV you need to go based on physical appearance and from one scene to the next it can be tough instantly recognize the person.

When you see, "the Hound" or "the Mountain" it is much more obvious than "is that guy mountain big, hound big or regular sized and fighting a small guy?"

True enough. And when I'm reading it is very easy to check the asoiaf wiki real quick for a character history. It is much harder to do that when watching the show.