I don't know if that stat was for actual buzzer beaters or for game winning shots but a quick youtube search gave me this.
When LeBron was with Cleveland and carried his team with little to no supporting cast, a lot of people loved him so it's interesting to see how people hate him since he went to the Heat. I personally don't understand it. Is it only because of "The Decision"? I think his idea to broadcast it was one of the worst choices he could ever make but you can't fault him for leaving in free agency. Whether you like him or not, I believe he will go down as one of the top 10 players in the history of the NBA when his career is over.
It's LeBron's attitude more than anything. He just makes it easy to hate him. Everyone acknowledges he's a great player, but like Kobe back in the day it's so easy to hate him.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
Lechoke is a bitch, I don't make up the stats TNT was showing it that he's a massive failure in the clutch.
What's the clutch though?
Last second shots when the other teams defense is basically make sure Lebron can't win it for his team (especially in Cleveland) and double or triple team him? Or is it hitting big shots in the last minute of the game to give your team a shot to win the game?
Is his big shots in the last two minutes of games less important than the last second play when he is often forced to take a bad shot because nobody else can? Sure it has changed a lot since he went to Miami and Wade is there to take some pressue off of him but Kobe has a rep as a clutch guy and he has missed a ton of "clutch" shots for his team.
Lechoke is a bitch, I don't make up the stats TNT was showing it that he's a massive failure in the clutch.
I feel your hatred for LeBron is skewing your view of statistics. I found the following that I think sums up the "clutchness" of today's players. One of the final observations sums up how I personally feel. "LeBron is obviously in a major clutch slump right now, but it happens to every player, because the sample sizes are so small every year. The statistics indicate he will bounce back at some point."
Are people using some hyperbole's about Lebron and being "clutch" or not? Without question. He's made some great buzzer beating plays, shown up in big 4th quarters when his team needed him and just won another MVP trophy. The idea that he has to take every shot to win the game or else he's "afraid" and "not clutch" is one of the dumbest theories in sports, especially when he's playing on a team with Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade.
I do believe his lack of will to overcome adversity in some key spots over his career should be noted though. He has made it far to easy sometimes, for a player of his skill, to be a non factor by his standards, in some very important playoff games.
Kobe as "clutch" has to be one of the biggest myths in not only NBA but sports history. Yes Kobe has made dozens of clutch game closing shots...but when you attempt hundreds of those shots, no doubt the number you make is going to be higher. Percentage wise shows Kobe is around 20% in the final 24 seconds of the game. For comparison Carmelo Anthony, who is seen as somewhat clutch, is in the mid 40's.
As to LeBron, the problem with his "clutchness" has more to do with him shrinking in the biggest moments. How unbelievably bad was he in the 4th quarter in the Finals last year? So bad that he inspired a myriad of can't-get-change-from-a-dollar-from-LeBron-cause-he-doesn't-have-a-fourth-quarter jokes. Big shots at the end of the game are only a small component of clutchness. Wanting to take shots and being unafraid of big moments matters too, and LeBron often shrinks in those moments.
Also moon, lol at complaining about other teams getting calls. If you've been watching the playoffs you may have noticed the officiating has been atrocious for most games, and not just in favor of the Heat. Its just no team has been directly given a game like the Heat were game 2. It should be 3-1 Celtics in that series and everyone except Heat fans know it.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
Kobe hasn't been the best player today for at least several years. Again not liking LeBron is one thing, but to not acknowledge he's the best player in the league is silly. I still think Shaq and Duncan at their peaks are also better, because they made their entire teams better, while Kobe made Kobe better. I always hoped LeBron wouldn't actually be an a-hole, but ego is ego and it destroys all. I mean the Lakers are screwed now because Kobe's ego will not allow him to reduce his ridiculous $30 million he's owed each of the next two years.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
I can't pass on a chance to do a little Kobe bashing. Something tells me the Spurs will find a way tomorrow night, mostly because this series needs 7. OKC might want to win a title now or next year, cause after that Harden is an RFA and is going to get a max offer sheet, and Ibaka also figures to get a big offer sheet. OKC might have to decide between the two of them, and I think for as good as Harden is, Ibaka is more difficult to replace.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
Kobe hasn't been the best player today for at least several years. Again not liking LeBron is one thing, but to not acknowledge he's the best player in the league is silly. I still think Shaq and Duncan at their peaks are also better, because they made their entire teams better, while Kobe made Kobe better. I always hoped LeBron wouldn't actually be an a-hole, but ego is ego and it destroys all. I mean the Lakers are screwed now because Kobe's ego will not allow him to reduce his ridiculous $30 million he's owed each of the next two years.
Not for nothing, but Kobe did win two titles and went to three finals without a second big name on the team. Gasol and Bynum are decent secondary players, but they are definitely not superstar material. It's hard to say Kobe only made himself better, when you are essentially saying he was a one man team. LeBron may have been the best player in the regular season the last few seasons, but who really cares about that? Kobe was the best player in the game from the day Jordan retired to his last NBA Championship two years ago. 5 titles and 7 finals appearances gives him that title imo.
Sure you can can say Shaq played a bigger role in the first couple title runs, and that may be true, but many people consider O'Neal's career to have been somewhat disappointing (even with 4 titles). Shaq was also just as much to blame as Kobe was for that falling apart (Jackson and Buss deserve some blame as well).
LeBron is the best player in the game today without question, but I am not sure I would choose him over any player with a big game on the line. Also Kobe is probably 2-3 years until retirement, so his play being surpassed by others was going to happen eventually.
I would no longer consider myself an NBA expert, but Kobe has to be considered among the top 5 players of all time. Considering LeBron has Wade playing with him I believe he needs multiple titles (at least 3) to be ranked higher.
Last edited by trackercowe; 06-05-2012 at 07:33 PM.
Kobe is a great player. Lebron James is a great player. They're both future HOF'ers. If Lebron had the chance to come up with those Laker teams that Kobe did, he could easily have multiple championships. I always think comparing players based on rings, is just a narrative people like to make for arguments. Sports are far to much of a team game, even basketball, we are just obsessed with having to compare players of current and past at nausea.
