U of A eliminates bell curved grading

[chemgear]

What a flamin' load of horse manure. In other news, they will be handing out full degrees as you walk in for your first year along with free hugs and kisses.

http://thegatewayonline.ca/article/v...ed_grading/P20

The university’s decision to abolish the requirement of the bell curve was finalized last week, and will be implemented in the fall semester across all faculties and departments on campus.

Chelen also noted that the Students’ Union was not consulted prior to the decision to remove the curve, revealing a lack of communication between the university and its students.

EDIT: Article has been revised - change in bold above.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by chemgear

What a flamin' load of horse manure. In other news, they will be handing out full degrees as you walk in for your first year along with free hugs and kisses.

http://thegatewayonline.ca/article/v...ed_grading/P20

The university’s decision to abolish the bell curve was finalized last week, and will be implemented in the fall semester across all faculties and departments on campus.

Chelen also noted that the Students’ Union was not consulted prior to the decision to remove the curve, revealing a lack of communication between the university and its students.

My degree, now with 30% less respect.

I wonder if they're adopting the "No Zeros" policy of Edmonton Public Schools as well.

[Northendzone]

a degree and free hugs and kisses - thanks.....

[ma-skis.com]

This is good for classes that are super easy, but bad for classes that are super hard. At least from a students point of view.

If anything, this will make professors more accountable in terms of creating pieces of assessment that accurately measure students knowledge. Instead of the ol' ´whoa, a bunch of kids just failed the only test they get to write this term, so I will magically 'curve the grades to get more kids to pass. or the opposite where too many kids got an A.

Once you have that you can avoid punishing a class that just happens to have a bunch of smart kids or rewarding a class of not so smart kids.

[Brewmaster]

I'm not sure this means that students won't be able to fail, but it will certainly put more power into the hands of the professor who makes up the exams. What happens next time a prof makes a final exam ridiculously hard, and the class average is 40%?

[Lt.Spears]

I never had a problem with grading on a curve, each teacher does his or her own style of teaching, assignments, and examinations. Curve marking just makes things a little more even for students in the same class with different teachers.

[wpgflamesfan]

So glad I only have 3 easy classes left in order to get my degree. This is an absolute joke and helps no one.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by ma-skis.com

This is good for classes that are super easy, but bad for classes that are super hard. At least from a students point of view.

If anything, this will make professors more accountable in terms of creating pieces of assessment that accurately measure students knowledge. Instead of the ol' ´whoa, a bunch of kids just failed the only test they get to write this term, so I will magically 'curve the grades to get more kids to pass. or the opposite where too many kids got an A.

Once you have that you can avoid punishing a class that just happens to have a bunch of smart kids or rewarding a class of not so smart kids.

This does the opposite of making professors more accountable. Now they'll give out grades however they damn well please, which will inevitably be unfair. Some profs will give out lower/higher grades than others, and it makes the system more arbitrary and less transparent.

[bc-chris]

i'm not a fan of the bell curve, i never have been

to me it's pretty cut and dry - your grade is your grade. no skewing it becuz of a smart/'not-so-smart' class

i think brewmaster does make a good point about a ridiculously hard exam, however, i highly doubt most profs make new exams from scratch every year - they reuse/rework old exams, so they know what kind of grades to expect.

my wife is a teacher, and she knows going into a test what kids will do well and which will bomb.


...ha... after re-reading my post i think it's even more clear to me why my degree is in mathematics!!

[V]

My entire MechE 250 class would've failed if it wasn't for the curve. 33% average. I don't see how this won't happen in the future.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I also have never been graded on a curve. If a class or subject is so ridiculously hard that it needs to be graded on a curve rather than the actual result, perhaps the class should be changed to not be so impossibly difficult? Or how it is teached/graded should be changed?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by V

My entire MechE 250 class would've failed if it wasn't for the curve. 33% average. I don't see how this won't happen in the future.

Especially with the relative level of effort some profs put into teaching undergrads. When something is your 5th priority at work (after research, applying for grants, supervising grad students, and squash at the faculty club) it's not surprising some of them can't write fair exams.

That becomes a real problem when two different profs teach the same class. One writes a hard exam, one writes an easy exam. One sets the cutoff for an 'A' at 75% because he wants to be a nice guy, one sets the cutoff for an 'A' at 95% because he walked to school uphill both ways.

When you just let the profs pick how to assign grades instead of having a standard, they'll pick different ways. When the method is the same for every class, it may be arbitrary but it is fair. And the law of large numbers is starting to apply on classes that are 100+ students, it's not like they're all future Rhodes scholars that move the curve terribly.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by fotze

At least now I have a reason for throwing out any U of A resume that comes across my desk.

Which is the inevitable result of this, imo.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I also have never been graded on a curve. If a class or subject is so ridiculously hard that it needs to be graded on a curve rather than the actual result, perhaps the class should be changed to not be so impossibly difficult? Or how it is teached/graded should be changed?

Or individuals simply do not belong in that class/field of study and need to leave.

For example, engineering fails out how many people in the first year? 1/3? 1/2? In the grand scheme of things, the teaching/testing shouldn't have to change to ensure people who are enrolled all pass. My God, can you imagine how low profressional standards would have to be cut to let this through?

[calf]

Originally Posted by V

My entire MechE 250 class would've failed if it wasn't for the curve. 33% average. I don't see how this won't happen in the future.

For a class like this, could a prof not make the marking key be:
A - >50%
B - >40%
C - >30%
etc. You just change the marking key as a work-around, instead of fitting everyone into a curve, where if you get punished for being in an abnormally smart class (or rewarded if in an abnormally dumb class). I can remember many classes in university where a standard for an A was different percentage-wise...not sure why that can't be the case for the extremely hard classes (other than the fact that the student doesn't know half the material).

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by bc-chris

i'm not a fan of the bell curve, i never have been

to me it's pretty cut and dry - your grade is your grade. no skewing it becuz of a smart/'not-so-smart' class

What happens when you have the same class being taught by two different teachers with one giving super easy exams and the other giving much harder exams?

That's the beauty of the curve. It eliminates any of these small biases and compares people relatively rather than objectively, and at the end of the day that's closer to what you'll see in real life.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I also have never been graded on a curve. If a class or subject is so ridiculously hard that it needs to be graded on a curve rather than the actual result, perhaps the class should be changed to not be so impossibly difficult? Or how it is teached/graded should be changed?

Well, in first year law for example, an exam will have 2 or 3 fact patterns for you to dissect and analyze. Given the 2/3 hour time constraints it is impossible for you to go through ever single scenario and outcome because some of them are so nuanced that you'll spend a page or two for one mark. On the other hand, the more obvious issues present themselves at the outset and those are the ones that you need to identify and are worth the most marks.


Edit: the Article is unclear if this means "a grade is a grade" or whether this means that their not going to force teachers to enforce the curve. I.e., maybe in an Engineering class a B is 35%, this just means that they won't normalize the distribution, but it doesn't mean that 50% is necessarily a pass.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

I'm pretty sure I've never been graded on a curve, and I'm glad that's the case.

For technical classes, there's no way there should be a curve. Either you know the material or you don't. I'm not sure I want someone designing bridges for me who passed because of a curve, instead of actually knowing the material.

[OffsideSpecialist]

At my school I believe all profs teaching the same course have the collaborate and give the same exam to all the students across the different sections. Is this not the case there?

[calumniate]

Hmm so they plan on moving onto standardized testing in university courses? Sounds like a bad plan to me..

Yeah, remove the curve, put everything on scantrons and watch the student population google their tests. Awesome